Santorum on College

[Jenn]

"I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely ... The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country."

Did Santorum not go to college? How about his kids? Does he really want to be the anti-college president?

[Lady Julian]

(02-25-2012 03:34 AM)Jenn Wrote:  "I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely ... The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country."

Did Santorum not go to college? How about his kids? Does he really want to be the anti-college president?

False. False, false, false. This is the same attitude put out by the Worldview Academy: Uh, oh. Your kid is taking a class at the university from an atheist.

I went to a Fundy U for my Bachelor's because my parents believed that secular universities were "indoctrination centers". Then I got my M.A. at a secular university. Guess which one was the indoctrination center?

Professors at a secular university will not try to convert you to whatever their belief is (feminism, Marxism, atheism), if they're good at their job, and if you don't make yourself obnoxious. My teachers never tried to convert me, and they accepted what they knew about my conservative beliefs with no heckling.

EDIT: I can't believe I wrote "you're kid" in the original. I am an English teacher, for cryin' out loud! I will blame it on George. (He lurks in the forums too, right?)

[Tchaiko]

Later in the same article on CBS, it states that he "floated the idea of requiring universities that receive public funds have "intellectual diversity" on campus." I wanted to throw my laptop across the room and scream at him, "That's already in place!!!! The only places that it does not exist are the places that you would endorse!"

The more I read about what he says, the more shocked I am that people support him. He's running for president. Not deacon. Not pastor. Not leader of the Bible club. He honestly terrifies me. Even if he doesn't legislate his beliefs, having the POTUS say the things he's saying would be disastrous for our national image and kill internal morale.

[amyrose5]

This stuff makes me want to scream. Why does education and critical thought and exposure to different ideas have to be the bogeyman?

And the Left is just as guilty of this as the Right. I know left-wing home school parents who are essentially out to keep their precious children away from the children of poor people or immigrants. Because diversity is a bad influence. People who disagree with your politics are a bad influence. After all they saw "McCain-Palin" stickers in the car pool drop off line, and "can you imagine your kids being around those people's children?"

Isolation is not good for anyone be they 8 or 80 years old.

[dramaturge]

(02-25-2012 02:49 PM)amyrose5 Wrote:  This stuff makes me want to scream. Why does education and critical thought and exposure to different ideas have to be the bogeyman?

And the Left is just as guilty of this as the Right. I know left-wing home school parents who are essentially out to keep their precious children away from the children of poor people or immigrants. Because diversity is a bad influence. People who disagree with your politics are a bad influence. After all they saw "McCain-Palin" stickers in the car pool drop off line, and "can you imagine your kids being around those people's children?"

Isolation is not good for anyone be they 8 or 80 years old.

In my experience, the bolded is more a result of socio-economic snobbery than political alignment. But the be-reddened part is definitely a problem on both sides. "How could we let our kids listen to someone who thinks x?" The fear of exposure to critical thought is generally a problem on one side, though, and it's so destructive. Santorum's comments make me ill. The whole distrust of "academia" is not a good thing. /stream-of-consciousness response. haha

[amyrose5]

dramaturge--it is definitely. But it is a kind of elitism I see in the lefties who are homeschooling more than those on the right. Those kids are not smart enough, sophisticated enough, etc...for their children to be around. There is a whole damn diary about it on Daily Kos today that dismisses kids in the diarist's local public school as the offspring of people who "drive old pick-up trucks" and live in bad neighborhoods and hunt and how dare anyone think his/her child should be exposed to such children. That nearly could have been written by a friend of mine.

I know a couple who are former fundies who are extreme liberals now that are just as frightened of their children encountering conservative thought as the fundagelicals I know are of the opposite.

And I say this as someone who is basically politically liberal.

We need to stop being afraid of diversity in all its shapes and forms. That is the bottom line for a lot of this. I just read about and watched a video about the desegregation of Southern schools and universities in the late 50s/early 60s. It scares me that we can transfer some of the people's words of opposition into the mouths of people on both sides of the political spectrum today, whether it is about poor kids, handicapped kids, immigrant kids, etc...being in the same classroom as their children. And sometimes I think it is rooted in mere selfishness....the school experience is supposed to be all about their child and only their child or it is suspect.

[RobMille]

Welcome to Pennsylvania 2006. It was shocking he got 2 terms as Senator even running in sweeping R years.

[dramaturge]

(02-25-2012 04:23 PM)amyrose5 Wrote:  dramaturge--it is definitely. But it is a kind of elitism I see in the lefties who are homeschooling more than those on the right. Those kids are not smart enough, sophisticated enough, etc...for their children to be around. There is a whole damn diary about it on Daily Kos today that dismisses kids in the diarist's local public school as the offspring of people who "drive old pick-up trucks" and live in bad neighborhoods and hunt and how dare anyone think his/her child should be exposed to such children. That nearly could have been written by a friend of mine.

I know a couple who are former fundies who are extreme liberals now that are just as frightened of their children encountering conservative thought as the fundagelicals I know are of the opposite.

And I say this as someone who is basically politically liberal.

We need to stop being afraid of diversity in all its shapes and forms. That is the bottom line for a lot of this. I just read about and watched a video about the desegregation of Southern schools and universities in the late 50s/early 60s. It scares me that we can transfer some of the people's words of opposition into the mouths of people on both sides of the political spectrum today, whether it is about poor kids, handicapped kids, immigrant kids, etc...being in the same classroom as their children. And sometimes I think it is rooted in mere selfishness....the school experience is supposed to be all about their child and only their child or it is suspect.

As a fairly liberal and fairly educated person living in a pretty conservative and country area (the most picturesque word would be "redneck," but connotatively, using it does argue against the point of trying to promote diversity. haha), I can kind of understand that attitude toward public school kids depending on the area. Not that it's a good attitude to have, but when camo is the most popular clothing color and ignorance is often celebrated by the people around you, it can be...off-putting. I can understand the desire to ideologically shelter. It would be really easy to justify that attitude, I would think.

And I absolutely get the response of former fundies. Why would they want their kids exposed to the very thought system from which they're still shedding baggage? That's the most understandable of all, I think. Unfortunately, they become the thing they dislike by adopting the same methods. They are letting their baggage inform their decisions in ways it oughtn't.

I think it's really, really easy to justify narrowing the experience of one's child. There is always a "noble" reason to limit their exposure to diversity of all kinds. There is always some "danger" that limitation is supposedly keeping them from. But then their mind is weakened in the same way our immune system would be if we'd grown up in a clean room. Some time you have to leave, and it's not going to be pretty.

Your last sentence is spot on. It's so often about selfishness in various forms. At a private school, you get to hear some people be the most honest about it: I pay my child's tuition, so I have the right to x, y, and z. Well, no. You don't. Particularly when x, y, or z is at the expense of other children. Unfortunately, what I see is that the more material resources someone has, the more this attitude comes into play, for many likely due to the fact that they were not exposed to socio-economic diversity and they were exposed to getting things they way they want. And I make that as a factual statement not in any way as a censure on them. When a parent's experience becomes an excuse to put their child in a box, though, that's when it might become a problem. I say that fully aware of how difficult it is for me, as a teacher to approach things objectively, to merely ask though-provoking questions and present other ideas, when one of my students spouts something off-the-wall that their parent said. But it has to be done. I can't put them into a different box while shaking my fist at the box their parents are trying to keep them in.

I think another big part of it is fear. Fear that children will form different ideas and not sign on to whatever position(s) a parent thinks is "right." Fear that they'll be exposed to something and won't know how to process it. Fear of all things different. And that's one reason why the integration of the school system is such a powerful thing, and why I'm a huge supporter of the entire idea of public schooling. (Yes, I do teach at a private school. That's a longish story. haha) Integration of schools allowed children and adults to finally come in contact with each other on a regular basis. It gave the "other" a face in the same classroom. And that's the biggest way to undermine unnecessary fear. It's why, even though I was homeschooled, I'm not the biggest fan of it: it's too easy to isolate yourself and your children from "the other." And then you end up like Santorum, railing against something you're afraid of, but no longer know anything rational about.

I think you and I are in pretty good agreement, amyrose. I think my experience tends to lend itself to seeing this problem larger than life among mostly conservatives. Of course, among very conservative people, the distrust of all things academic is coupled with a distrust of the "other," and perhaps that's why it seems bigger to me.

Whew. I got long winded. Now if I could just carry this over to the half-finished blog post I can't seem to get done. hahaha

[amyrose5]

dramaturge...I've been there and done that, having taught in private schools for 16 years. I also live in a very conservative area, so I see what you're saying. My point of view today is likely colored by the argument that I got at Daily Kos over an elitist left-wing home schooling diary. Because the one thing a former teacher dare not do is suggest that there are any faults in home schooling or any positives in schools--public or private.

[Phatchick]

{Shakes head} Every time that man opens his mouth he just sticks his foot a little further down. At this rate, by the GOP convention, he'll have choked to death on his knee!