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**JordanMaria** · 03-22-2012, 08:22 AM

(03-21-2012 07:05 PM)NotUnderLaw Wrote: I hope I am not the first to say that your husband needs help, is probably deeply ashamed, doesn't know where to turn and needs grace not condemnation. If my wife had run out on me when she found out my problems, I think I'd be dead now. I don't mean to be heartless, but have you actually sat down and discussed these issues with your husband, or did you just blow up at him and condemn him. I was introduced to rubbish at age 14, and it stuck with me for years.

(03-22-2012 12:00 AM)NotUnderLaw Wrote: And the solution is not condemnation and ganging up against someone for having committed sins.

The solution is also NOT NOT NOT telling a woman who found out her husband isn't the person she thought he was, that she needs to show "grace" and not "condemnation". Are you freaking KIDDING me?!? I think you need to reevaluate your fundy response to someone who has been hurt. If I was molested by an uncle, would you tell me he "needs grace" and that I need not to condemn him??? I should hope not! Yes, the hurt is different, but it's still hurt. A person needs to be allowed to go through the normal stages of grief and anger. Her husband made his choices. Now he has to deal with the consequences.

Just because your wife didn't throw you out on your ass, doesn't mean she has to do the same. There are limits to what each individual can handle and accept. Your situation, no matter how similar, is NOT her situation.

I get all stabby when people tell others they need to show "grace" to those who hurt them.

NotUnderLaw · 03-22-2012, 01:08 PM

Yep, simply quote the first and last lines of everything I wrote and get all pissy about it, while ignoring everything else. It's very easy to condemn a man. And yes, if you were abused by your uncle, I would say he needs grace. Maybe not from the person abused, but he definitely needs grace. Is there anyone in this world who is so far gone that they do not need grace?

My response is not "fundy" in anyway, and you and others on this forum need to stop using that as an accusation for any response that isn't one sided condemnation on things you see as unjust. The fundamentalist response is "stick with him no matter what, because marriage is the law of God and divorce is adultery", and the evangifundy response "divorce his arse because it's a wicked sin". I'm saying "the man needs help, and noone is so far removed from ever needing the grace of God and others in their lives".

I'm not suggesting she stick with him or leave. I have no opinion on that and don't care to offer my input regarding such a delicate matter. You know all the molesters that are posted about on this forum. Surprise, God loves them too. And of all people, they need the most grace. Am I suggesting we slap them on the wrist and say "hey, it's okay, I love you, don't do it again". Nope, not at all. The consequences of sin are far reaching and destructive for both its doers and its victims and there is a justice that will be served, either here or after. But if all we do is heap condemnation upon people rather than trying to find out why they happened to do something, how does that make us different to a fundamentalist? All it does is make us self righteous moralists.

~~Persnickety Polecat~~ · 03-22-2012, 01:39 PM

(03-22-2012 01:08 PM)NotUnderLaw Wrote: Yep, simply quote the first and last lines of everything I wrote and get all pissy about it, while ignoring everything else. It's very easy to condemn a man. And yes, if you were abused by your uncle, I would say he needs grace. Maybe not from the person abused, but he definitely needs grace. Is there anyone in this world who is so far gone that they do not need grace?

My response is not "fundy" in anyway, and you and others on this forum need to stop using that as an accusation for any response that isn't one sided condemnation on things you see as unjust. The fundamentalist response is "stick with him no matter what, because marriage is the law of God and divorce is adultery", and the evangifundy response "divorce his arse because it's a wicked sin". I'm saying "the man needs help, and noone is so far removed from ever needing the grace of God and others in their lives".

I'm not suggesting she stick with him or leave. I have no opinion on that and don't care to offer my input regarding such a delicate matter. You know all the molesters that are posted about on this forum. Surprise, God loves them too. And of all people, they need the most grace. Am I suggesting we slap them on the wrist and say "hey, it's okay, I love you, don't do it again". Nope, not at all. The consequences of sin are far reaching and destructive for both its doers and its victims and there is a justice that will be served, either here or after. But if all we do is heap condemnation upon people rather than trying to find out why they happened to do something, how does that make us different to a fundamentalist? All it does is make us self righteous moralists.

There is a time and a place for everything. I don't really know that I'd say anyone actually condemned this man, but I'm obviously reading the thread from a different POV. Regardless, just as I don't think it's appropriate to preach grace and forgiveness to a freshly abused child towards his or her abuser, I also don't think it's appropriate to use this thread to preach grace and forgiveness to R, who is struggling to heal from her own wounds right now.

BTJMO.

NotUnderLaw · 03-22-2012, 01:45 PM

After my initial post I wasn't. Having been in the situation that her husband is in, to some extent, I have an insight into the mind and habits of a porn addict and was trying to share how people in that situation might feel, rather than have everyone demonize them. I wasn't directly addressing redhot at all, except in my initial post, briefly.

lucrezaborgia · 03-22-2012, 01:50 PM

(03-22-2012 12:00 AM)NotUnderLaw Wrote: Yes, it did interfere with my life. I couldn't work. I would search all day for the answers to my questions "Am I really saved?" etc. It wasn't as bad as searching for filth at work, but the result was the same. My work suffered. A lot. My relationship with my wife suffered.

I'm confused. You felt guilty about looking at porn at home and then spent the rest of your time trying to find out if you were going to hell or not?

NotUnderLaw · 03-22-2012, 02:56 PM

Yep. I figured if I was "truly" a "good moral Christian" I wouldn't be tempted by it, so I would do nothing but read pages upon pages of testimonies, sermons, commentaries, etc to find out whether or not I was a "True Christian". And it was debilitating. I was spoken to several times about my job performance. I left one job before I could get fired for poor performance. I'm in a new place now and am doing really well here but I got over the fear of condemnation and hell about two years ago.

When my wife tried to talk to me, I would unload on her all my fear and doubt, and this went on for about three years, at the same time as the addiction still had me in it's grips. I don't remember talking to my wife about anything other than whether or not I was truly saved during those three years. I would come home from work, go out to the shed, curl up in a ball and cry for several hours, before coming in for dinner, than going on the net to read more and search for answers, before crying myself to sleep. For three years.

I'm not saying this to boast in how messed up I was, but rather to let people know I have some idea of the kind of pain that this problem causes to not only the spouse involved, but also the one actually doing it.

lucrezaborgia · (This post was last modified: 03-22-2012 03:25 PM by lucrezaborgia.)

...but it sounds like you were consumed with guilt over it and the guilt led to depression and obsessing over things. That sounds nothing like what redhot's husband did. You spent hours trying to assuage the guilt. That's not a porn addiction.

~~Persnickety Polecat~~ · 03-22-2012, 03:28 PM

(03-22-2012 01:45 PM)NotUnderLaw Wrote: After my initial post I wasn't. Having been in the situation that her husband is in, to some extent, I have an insight into the mind and habits of a porn addict and was trying to share how people in that situation might feel, rather than have everyone demonize them. I wasn't directly addressing redhot at all, except in my initial post, briefly.

Notunderlaw, the difference between your situation and hers is that not only did you try to make it right with your wife (there is no evidence that he is doing so), he also defrauded his family of tens of thousands of dollars. That's what I would consider financial infidelity on top of the porn addiction.

I think most wives can be remarkably forgiving of a lot of bad behavior on the part of their husbands (and there is plenty of evidence to back me up) even when they shouldn't be. But this situation was damaging to the whole family -- again, imo -- and it wasn't about the porn addiction as much as it was the deceit, the money, and the other behaviors.

**Qrayze** · 03-22-2012, 11:57 PM

(03-22-2012 03:24 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote: ...but it sounds like you were consumed with guilt over it and the guilt led to depression and obsessing over things. That sounds nothing like what redhot's husband did. You spent hours trying to assuage the guilt. That's not a porn addiction.

I was thinking the same thing. Dude wasn't an addict; he was just feeling mega guilty over a normal urge.

The thing that is so mind-fucked-up with growing up IFB is that it skews our perceptions of what addiction really is. In the IFB, feeling an urge to do somthing makes you an addict. No, it doesn't. Once a month during ovulation, I get the urge to have sex, but that doesn't mean I'm addicted to sex since I'm single. It means that nature is trying to get me preggers.

There is so much re-education you have to go thru when coming out of the IFB, that, if you don't willfully educate yourself, you are going to sound like a fundy even if you don't identify that way.

NotUnderLaw · 03-23-2012, 04:20 AM

Yeah, but I actually looked it up almost nightly and still have issues if I am alone on the net. The temptations haven't just faded away. I just struggle with it a lot less than before and I have faith that one day, I'll just not come across it again. I find it boring and repulsive, and the times I do screw up are rare. More often than not I end up walking away from it thinking "bah, why bother. It's a waste of time". So I guess the addiction is gone, but the habit is still being overcome.