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notdrinkingthekoolaid · 03-17-2012, 04:14 PM

(03-17-2012 03:25 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: So are you going to stand by your original statement that porn is equally as damaging as an affair? The example I gave earlier was 3-months worth of an affair versus 3-months worth of daily porn so let's base our discussion from that perspective.

I stand by my original comment.

The result of a 3 month affair may be more immediately apparent, but the effects of 3 months of porn are just as damaging.

Harry Seaward · 03-17-2012, 05:39 PM

(03-17-2012 04:07 PM)Naomi Wrote: Are you purposely misreading me? I'm saying your point about keeping a family together is irrelevant. That shouldn't be a consideration. That's all. Individual couples and families should make their own decisions, preferably with professional counseling and or mediation. But obviously making a decision to simply keep a family together is not always going to be a healthy thing for children, so that shouldn't be considered. Only doing what's healthy for everyone should be considered.

I don't think I'm misreading you - not even after your extended replay. You've made yourself clear that the family unit is not of significant importance to you when deciding if you want to stay married to someone. I don't agree. In fact, I'm convinced that the increasing dissolution of the family unit is the cause of most of our societies problems. I keep trying to find out if people are willing to try to work things through but the responses I've gotten are about who is at fault (men, it seems, usually) and that porn is the root of all evil. Or that I'm misreading statements like "keeping a family together is not a consideration" or that it's "irrelevant". I've repeatedly said that if it can't work, get out and move on, but at least try, for godssake.

Quote:
(03-17-2012 03:05 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: I'm hurt that you would say you don't know me that well.

Yeah, so this is weird. Is divorce something that has affected you? Because I really don't get where you're coming from. You've posted almost exclusively in this thread, so, no, of course we don't know you or have any idea who you are. It takes a little more than one thread to be part of a community.

I was being facetious about being hurt, but sincere about you not knowing me - at least in regard to what I've said. I've been pretty clear in my opinions, when I've stated them. But, ironically, no, I've not been personally affected by divorce per se. My parents are still happily (mostly) married going on 57 years. I'm married and never been divorced, but I have a daughter with a woman I never married. The break-up then was difficult but it would have been a disaster if we had stayed together. It was for the best. BUT I fought tooth and nail for that relationship before realizing it wasn't going to work. I see my daughter every week and I'm as supportive as a dad can be with an "emo" teenage daughter, so I try to maintain my family values with her, even though her mom and I are not still together.

My interest in the thread is in regard to my passion for the family unit. That's all. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to live their lives. I will admit to being guilty of pointing out flaws in people's logic, though.

Quote:
(03-17-2012 03:05 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: No, most of my commentary and lines of questioning have been general "Divorce and Remarriage" fodder, as the title of the thread suggests.

That's certainly not how I've perceived it or several other people here have, either. I understand that may have been your intention, but it's come off as trying to give advice to a specific situation.

I'm guessing the situation we're talking about Redhot's, and if that's the case, this is a problem of perception. I said very early - my first post in fact - that if there were no kids involved, she should do whatever she wanted in regards to ending (or not) the relationship. Since she has no kids, nothing past the first line of my first post applies to her or her situation ... except here where I repeated myself that none of what I was saying was directed at her and apologized if my intentions were not clear.

Harry Seaward · 03-17-2012, 05:41 PM

(03-17-2012 04:14 PM)notdrinkingthekoolaid Wrote:
(03-17-2012 03:25 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: So are you going to stand by your original statement that porn is equally as damaging as an affair? The example I gave earlier was 3-months worth of an affair versus 3-months worth of daily porn so let's base our discussion from that perspective.

I stand by my original comment.

The result of a 3 month affair may be more immediately apparent, but the effects of 3 months of porn are just as damaging.

Alrighty, then. At least your consistent. I can't ask for any more than that.

~~Persnickety Polecat~~ · 03-17-2012, 06:37 PM

(03-17-2012 05:39 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: [quote='Naomi' pid='75141' dateline='1332018440']
the responses I've gotten are about who is at fault (men, it seems, usually) and that porn is the root of all evil.

Link, please.

I recall saying quite clearly that it takes two people to build a marriage and generally two people to kill one. I don't recall seeing anyone say anything against porn per se, although quite a few have had a lot to say about a person who will reject his/her partner in favor of porn while spending thousands of dollars a month on it -- call it an addiction or sheer stupidity; I don't really care which.

~~Persnickety Polecat~~ · 03-17-2012, 06:39 PM

(03-17-2012 04:05 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote:
(03-17-2012 03:29 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote: So you ignored it ... Gotcha.

No, your IF qualifier came after your definition that ended with a period so I wasn't sure if you were describing two separate scenarios.

Deliberate obtuseness is never attractive.

Ricardo · 03-17-2012, 07:29 PM

(03-17-2012 02:43 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: Both sides make poor, impulsive choices and it starts before the "till death do us part" racket. The marriages that survive are the those where the spouses talk about their differences and compromise on a solution.

Of course it takes two to tango. But "impulsive" would be Kim Kardassian walking out of a two week marriage. Impulsive would be blowing $20,000 in one night in Vegas. What we are talking instead is deliberate, daily decisions, day after day, week after week, month after month.

Yes, I'm having a little bit of trouble seeing a totally blind spouse, going about her daily chores, not having a clue for two years that something was up.

It is not appropriate to have these things out in the open in a public forum such as this one. It is bad enough when these things are dragged into court. Yes, IF there is mutual interest, both parties need to meet at a therapist, counselor or arbiter of some kind.

Meanwhile, The church needs to refrain from judgement. (Isn't there a verse or two about this?)

Harry Seaward · 03-17-2012, 07:48 PM

(03-17-2012 06:37 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:
(03-17-2012 05:39 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: [quote='Naomi' pid='75141' dateline='1332018440']
the responses I've gotten are about who is at fault (men, it seems, usually) and that porn is the root of all evil.

Link, please.

As you wish...

Quote:a porn addiction is denigrating to her and the children both.

Quote:I personally would not feel an ounce of guilt "for the kids' sake" for leaving my husband over a porn addiction

Quote:I'm simply saying that porn and/or affairs are equally incredibly damaging and take a mountain of work to overcome.

Quote:It really sucks that a man is supposed to get away with stealing thousands of dollars of family funds to fuel his porn addiction while treating his wife like crap just because he has a penis.

Quote:In my opinion, porn or an affair...BOTH are destructive to a marriage.

Quote:My first marriage failed due in large part to my ex husband's taste in porn.

Quote:If a man or woman is substituting porn for sex and ignoring the needs of his or her partner, imo, that is cheating.

Quote:the relationship was broken two years ago by the husband. For two years he has refused to confront his wife, settle their differences, and instead has engaged in deception and destructive behaviors.

Quote:The result of a 3 month affair may be more immediately apparent, but the effects of 3 months of porn are just as damaging.

Harry Seaward · 03-17-2012, 07:52 PM

(03-17-2012 06:39 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:
(03-17-2012 04:05 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: No, your IF qualifier came after your definition that ended with a period so I wasn't sure if you were describing two separate scenarios.

Deliberate obtuseness is never attractive.

Neither is bad syntax.

Ricardo · 03-17-2012, 08:33 PM

"Husband at fault." Point taken. Thanks Harry.

Yes, I would have to say: I'm not in a position, (and do not want to be in the position) to have to judge who is at fault. Clearly there is a problem, which seems to have been festering fro two years. The couple needs to sort it out without judgment from us, or the church.

It is truly tough to be supportive of one of the spouses without judging either way.

notdrinkingthekoolaid · 03-18-2012, 12:00 AM

Harry...please don't misquote me. I never said that porn was the root of all evil. I said I though that porn was damaging to a marriage, not the root of all evil or even the root of all marital problems.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I can speak for myself, thanks.