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**redbeardiam** · 02-10-2012, 04:14 PM

(02-10-2012 03:53 PM)myotch Wrote: I use Papist, too. And Catlick. Mackeral-snapper. Mary-worshipper. "Romish" is my new favorite adjective.

LOL. It's been a while since I heard 'Romish.' And I believe 'mackerel snapper' is entirely new to my vocabulary, in addition to sounding like something dirty.

Recovering · 02-10-2012, 04:17 PM

I first started considering other views when I attended a Lutheran catechism class during college. The pastor, who was very conservative (I think they call themselves "confessional Lutheran" and they're Missouri synod, if that helps anyone) and fairly anti-Catholic, taught that salvation comes by water and by the word - baptism and Scripture, basically. I think that traditional Anglicans and Lutherans, as well as Catholics, all think baptism figures pretty heavily into the definition of "Christian." (Not that Baptism is a ticket to heaven, or anything)

My husband says that for Catholics, justification and sanctification are not as separate as they are for a lot Protestants, so what Myotch said about "being saved" makes a lot of sense. Rather than imagining yourself somehow made perfect (in Christ's eyes) at the moment in time of conversion (praying a prayer), you're continually reshaped into the image of Christ, and that is part of your salvation.

My descriptive term of choice is "whore of Babylon." ;-)

**pastor's wife** · (This post was last modified: 02-10-2012 04:28 PM by pastor's wife.)

Templewoman, you might like to read "Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners" by John Bunyan (he of Pilgrim's Progress fame); it is an account of his salvation written in 1666. It would give you a primary source letting you know how he came to faith in Christ. (I'd summarize it for you, but I haven't read all of it and what I did was long ago.)

Quote: I was saved, I am being saved, and I hope to be saved.

This reminds me a little of this quote from "Mere Christianity": "I would much rather say that every time you make a choice you are turning the central part of you, the part of you that chooses, into something a little different from what it was before. And taking your life as a whole, with all your innumerable choices, all your life long you are slowly turning this central thing into a Heaven creature or into a hellish creature: either into a creature that is in harmony with God, and with other creatures, and with itself, or else into one that is in a state of war and hatred with God, and with its fellow creatures, and with itself. To be the one kind of creature is Heaven: that is, it is joy, and peace, and knowledge, and power. To be the other means madness, horror, idiocy, rage, impotence, and eternal loneliness. Each of us at each moment is progressing to the one state or the other." - C. S. Lewis

squiz · 02-10-2012, 06:53 PM

(02-09-2012 07:07 PM)Templewoman Wrote: I lived in Germany until I was thirty. Not exactly a Christian country.

Which part of Germany? I live in Bavaria, and it is definitely dominated by Christians.

**RobMille** · 02-11-2012, 04:51 PM

The 4 spiritual laws (essentially converted into the "plan of salvation" for copyright purposes I think), were developed/marketed by Campus Crusade for Christ in the 50s, and still one of their core teachings.

elizabethn · 02-12-2012, 12:54 PM

(02-10-2012 04:17 PM)Recovering Wrote: My husband says that for Catholics, justification and sanctification are not as separate as they are for a lot Protestants, so what Myotch said about "being saved" makes a lot of sense. Rather than imagining yourself somehow made perfect (in Christ's eyes) at the moment in time of conversion (praying a prayer), you're continually reshaped into the image of Christ, and that is part of your salvation.

I am taking a theology of ministry course in a Catholic university at the moment, and yes, this is how the concept was stated. Conversion is not a point-in-time thing in Catholic tradition, it is an ongoing process in which we (hopefully) actively participate. (Source for this is Gaudium et Spes .)[/i]

It's a little bit like the way some traditions use the term "sanctification," but not identical.

Templewoman · 02-16-2012, 12:01 PM

(02-10-2012 03:19 PM)redbeardiam Wrote:
(02-10-2012 12:40 PM)Templewoman Wrote: ??? I was not trying to open a can of worms or anything. It's more that what I know of Christianity is what I've been taught while being a fundy. It's pretty ingrained, and other perspectives or ways of looking at a subject don't come naturally. This is a forum where we can all safely say what's on our mind, I imagine, and we can agree to disagree?
You know you are talking to a fundy when he/she is always right.

Of course! I was agreeing with myotch, and playfully using the term Papist since he's, you know, a Catholic.

A-ha! I don't "get" stuff like that half the time (-:

Templewoman · 02-16-2012, 12:05 PM

(02-10-2012 04:23 PM)pastors wife Wrote: Templewoman, you might like to read "Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners" by John Bunyan (he of Pilgrim's Progress fame); it is an account of his salvation written in 1666. It would give you a primary source letting you know how he came to faith in Christ. (I'd summarize it for you, but I haven't read all of it and what I did was long ago.)

Quote: I was saved, I am being saved, and I hope to be saved.

This reminds me a little of this quote from "Mere Christianity": "I would much rather say that every time you make a choice you are turning the central part of you, the part of you that chooses, into something a little different from what it was before. And taking your life as a whole, with all your innumerable choices, all your life long you are slowly turning this central thing into a Heaven creature or into a hellish creature: either into a creature that is in harmony with God, and with other creatures, and with itself, or else into one that is in a state of war and hatred with God, and with its fellow creatures, and with itself. To be the one kind of creature is Heaven: that is, it is joy, and peace, and knowledge, and power. To be the other means madness, horror, idiocy, rage, impotence, and eternal loneliness. Each of us at each moment is progressing to the one state or the other." - C. S. Lewis

Thank you!

Shoes · 02-16-2012, 12:14 PM

when preachers [though i hesitate to call them that] came through and bashed Catholics, it always made my little fundy insides squirm. i mean where is the 'Christ-like-ness' in calling the Catholic Church 'The Whore Of Babylon' or 'The Whore on the Seven Hills?'

it always bugged me

Templewoman · 02-16-2012, 12:15 PM

(02-10-2012 06:53 PM)squiz Wrote:
(02-09-2012 07:07 PM)Templewoman Wrote: I lived in Germany until I was thirty. Not exactly a Christian country.
Which part of Germany? I live in Bavaria, and it is definitely dominated by Christians.

Sorry, I haven't been on the forum in a while. Born in Blumenfeld, very near the Switzerland border(Wuerttemberg) - my Dad and brother used to bike ride through the woods to smuggle cigarettes (-:
We also went to the Freibad in Thayngen, and grocery shopped at the Metro - all in Switzerland. When I was 11, we moved to Stuttgart, where I lived until I was 31.
I worked at the Wuerttembergische Versicherung (-: