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chris1000bc · 01-31-2011, 11:03 AM

I don't think debt is a sin, but agree with those of you who said that it is wise to not let it get out of control. I like Dave Ramsey, but think he is like anybody else - take the good and leave the bad behind.

My dad said several times, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you spend." I know that isn't true for everyone. Some people make so little that it is difficult for them to get by, but it is true for a lot of people.

Josh · 01-31-2011, 11:06 AM

(01-31-2011 11:03 AM)chris1000bc Wrote: I don't think debt is a sin, but agree with those of you who said that it is wise to not let it get out of control. I like Dave Ramsey, but think he is like anybody else - take the good and leave the bad behind.

My dad said several times, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you spend." I know that isn't true for everyone. Some people make so little that it is difficult for them to get by, but it is true for a lot of people.

In the end, it's about making sure that income minus expenses results in a positive number... Idea

**pastor's wife** · 01-31-2011, 03:25 PM

(01-29-2011 04:52 PM)Darren Wrote: I guess my frustration is the fact that so many fundys I know have taken the no debt thing to a ridiculous extreme. It is like the standard of spirituality for a lot of people.

Living debt-free is wise. We lived that way for a long time, paying off our credit card every month, and I am also an avid thrift store shopper. Some medical bills and a major down-turn in the housing market hit us hard, but we're sacrificing now to get back out from under the debt we accrued.

But as you pointed out, Darren, I think being debt-free is another thing Christians have come up with to make themselves feel superior to other Christians: "I don't go to movie theaters." "You don't? I don't even have a TV in my house!" There's always a sense of one-upmanship, finding a way to exalt oneself at the expense of another. While being without debt is wise if it's possible, we are all to be humble and compassionate. And if we've been blessed financially, we are to share with those who are in need, not smugly proclaim how wise we were for our good decisions in contrast with their supposedly poor ones.

Faith · 01-31-2011, 06:32 PM

(01-31-2011 03:25 PM)pastors wife Wrote: There's always a sense of one-upmanship, finding a way to exalt oneself at the expense of another.

That's the key to the hierarchy in the Fundy culture. Gotta be more holy, more separated, win more souls, etc. than the next fundy. Keepin' up with the (Dr. Bob) Joneses...

Smith · 01-31-2011, 06:52 PM

Ahhhh, "thrifting" Love it!

LutheranEmily · 01-31-2011, 10:45 PM

I dont necessarily get that vibe from Dave Ramsey, but I have never taken his course. I just read his book which seems like common sense to me.

I do know several people in the "debt is sin" camp, but none of them are fundy's. They are all home churchers.

Smith · 02-01-2011, 09:20 AM

LE,
Listen to him on the radio....you'll get the vibe alright...

LutheranEmily · 02-01-2011, 09:35 AM

Oh.. I have listened to his show. Usually, it just gets me excited to get out of debt. I find he is kind with people who are in a bad situation, but there are times when his answer is a simple..."you just need to make more money".. and I do admit, I find that laughable. Some people can't do that. They don't have the work ethic or people skills, or are just not motivated and you can't really change someone's personality. Others have disabilities, like my brother. He can't work right now. If he had accumulated debt (he didn't.. Thank God!) he would be in a really bad situation right now and unable to dig himself out.

I don't find him to be a cult leader though. I think the debt snowball advice is good advice.

LutheranEmily · 02-01-2011, 09:38 AM

I can't find the whole skit, but this was funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL3KuaFvOSc

**LMcC** · 02-01-2011, 11:46 AM

I used a modified version of Ramsey's plan to get my debts down, and I'm hoping that this is the year I finally get a certain long-term debt out of my life. I'm not going to say I'll never be in debt again or never use a credit card, but it'll be nice to get to the point where I know that Debt X will be paid off in months, not years.

Once the card debts I brought to the marriage are paid off, Hubby and I will do something more in line with Ramsey to work on his debts. Hubby needs more structure and guidance than I do, so I think the stricter plan will work better for him until we pay his stuff off.

AFAIC, Ramsey is good for someone starting to figure out the whole debt-reduction thing, but I don't think following him (or anyone else) to the letter is necessary except in special and very personalized situations. Some people need more flexibility. Some people don't need to think about buying a house. Some people can learn to use a credit card properly and not need to do "plasectomies". I actually used a combination of debt-reduction plans, taking what worked best for me from each.

FTR, I don't think debt is sin. It is, however, a big pain in the tuchis.