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mrmody · 01-31-2012, 07:51 AM

Many fundies use a Bible written by a convicted criminal, who lied on his resume and put it in front of his bible.

http://vimeo.com/29901084

**MKxcomm** · 02-21-2012, 12:15 AM

Every year, my Grandmother sends me subscription cards to get the "Israel, My Glory" magazine. She always leaves weird ant-Muslim on my FB page too. My parents were missionaries in a Muslim country so I have tons of Muslim friends. It's so weird.

**MKxcomm** · 02-21-2012, 08:10 AM

Wow! I've watched more of this movie and I have to say that it has blown my mind! I certainly was raised to be a Christian Zionist. Yet another fundy chain in my brain has broken Smile

GraceThruFaith · (This post was last modified: 02-21-2012 11:36 AM by GraceThruFaith.)

Christian Zionism: the reason why Christian fundamentalists and evangelicals are gung ho military supporters and care so much about wars in the Middle East.

Dispensationalism is basically that, and I'm now calling dispensationalism Christian Zionism from now on.

NotUnderLaw · 02-21-2012, 03:36 PM

Hypocrisy in this thread - Don't hate muslims but let's hate dispensationalists. Why does it matter what other people believe? If you are happy to be friends with Muslims and Buddhists and Homosexuals (and I am - not homo, but I don't have any aversion to actually being a friend to one), why can't you extend the same tolerance to dispensationalists, fundamentalists and what not, even if they don't reciprocate.

For the record, I am not a dispensationalist, but I was one, and I really think that people don't actually understand it's premise. I still hold to it's major points - separation of church and Israel, law and grace etc, but am not sure if I believe in a rapture or the eschatological points that it promotes. People think that dispensationalism is about fearmongering and believing in a rapture and supporting Israel, and I guess that is what it has become. But if you actually go back and read stuff by Darby, McKintosh, and other early dispies, the focus was on grace in the new dispensation (one could even say new covenant), and hardly on rapture rapture rapture. It is a shame that it has become what it is today. I think that the new covenant grace churches are taking the place of what dispensationalism used to stand for.

That'sWhatItSays · 02-21-2012, 04:59 PM

The roots of dispensationalism have to do with separating discrepancies in the Bible between the earthly ministry of Jesus and the role of the church today.

Rapture doctrines, the future of Israel, and the Millenial reign of Christ are off-shoots of the "system". However, the most important parts of the Bible, as it concerns dispensationalism, are Acts 2, Acts 9, and Acts 15. The beginning of the ministry of Peter and the Apostles to Jerusalem first leading up to Paul's salvation and preaching to the gentiles is the most important distinction.

Christ is going to return and establish his reign from Jerusalem, so I guess we should be concerned about what's going on in Israel. A lot of the "gung ho" Israel stuff is kind of misplaced, though.

artsim · 02-21-2012, 05:35 PM

(02-21-2012 04:59 PM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: Christ is going to return and establish his reign from Jerusalem, so I guess we should be concerned about what's going on in Israel. A lot of the "gung ho" Israel stuff is kind of misplaced, though.

From what I can tell the overwhelming majority of Christians don't believe what you just said and haven't throughout history. Dispensationalism appears to be primarily an American phenomenon. The Zionism part is particularly bad because you have Christians enthusiastic about OT sacrifices being reinstated and other such nonsense. The support of Israel, regardless, of their behavior and policies, is bad enough.

**Presbygirl** · 02-21-2012, 05:54 PM

Believers are "Israel."

NotUnderLaw · 02-21-2012, 08:59 PM

Yep. "Israel", but not Israel as a nation. And that's the issue. Because there is a spiritual Israel of God and a physical Israel, and God made promises to both, some of which were never fulfilled, although they were clearly made to physical Israel.

**redbeardiam** · (This post was last modified: 02-21-2012 09:16 PM by redbeardiam.)

Quote:Believers are "Israel."

Presbygirl, I was waiting to see who would poke that stick in there. Troublemaker. Wink

(02-21-2012 08:59 PM)NotUnderLaw Wrote: Yep. "Israel", but not Israel as a nation. And that's the issue. Because there is a spiritual Israel of God and a physical Israel, and God made promises to both, some of which were never fulfilled, although they were clearly made to physical Israel.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion from reading the NT authors.

Most of the promises made to national Israel were conditional upon their obedience. The New Testament speaks of others as being fulfilled in Christ. The New Testament clearly portrays one people of God, saved by grace through faith, throughout history. The image is not of Israel being replaced, but of believing gentiles as being grafted into (true, believing) Israel.

Dispensationalist theology tends to view the New Testament through the lens of the Old. Those who see one people of God look at the Old Testament through the lens of the New.