Leaving KJV

[Darrell]

Quote:All one has to do is have a look at oversight committee of the ESV to question whether these solidly reformed folks allowed some bias to slip into their translation

There is no such thing as a translation without bias. Translators are human. Humans have bias.

Fortunately we live in a time when comparing various translations is easy and readily available.

I'm not personally Reformed but I stand by my recommendation.

[Donb123]

(01-19-2012 12:24 PM)greg Wrote:  Wayne Gruden
J.I. Packer
C. John Collins
Thomas R. Schreiner
Justin Taylor

Greg, I was wondering if you could name a handful of scholars that are not Calvinists?

[notreallyfundy]

The church I now attend uses the ESV. The pew Bibles are ESV and that's what the pastor uses but members are encouraged to use whatever translations best suit them. I never believed in the KJVO stuff so I guess it wasn't hard for me to transition to a church that uses a different translation. My advice to your children would be for them to pray and ask God to show them what is important and what just comes down to traditions/preferences. At this church I'm attending, I have found godly, loving people who truly believe the Bible is the Word of God and that it is our authority. They place an emphasis on personal devotions and following Christ's example. At first I thought "Wow, you all believe the Bible, too?!" They believe it and try to show God's love to the community. I would encourage your children to really give the new church a fair chance and to ask God to show them what is truly important and to help them hold off on passing judgment on things that are just different. I have enjoyed the freedom and liberty I have found at this church; that members can have different views or opinions on matters such as Bible versions, but they still love one another and don't look down on one another for differences of opinion. Good luck to your family!

[greg]

(01-20-2012 12:54 AM)Donb123 Wrote:  

(01-19-2012 12:24 PM)greg Wrote:  Wayne Gruden
J.I. Packer
C. John Collins
Thomas R. Schreiner
Justin Taylor

Greg, I was wondering if you could name a handful of scholars that are not Calvinists?

Where to begin and then where to stop? Also, I hope I'm not being set-up to play my scholar is better than your scholar. Let me add, I offer these names with a caveat, these are simply men as you and I are men, I don't revere any of them, btw, I don't agree completely with any of them, these were some fellas that read and believed their bibles, sinful creatures like me. I follow one man, the man Christ Jesus.

So in no particular order:

C. Stephen Evans
Howard Marshall
John Wesley
Henry Hammond
Thomas Oden
Roger Olson
Norman Geisler
Hugo Grotius
William Abraham
Chad Owen Brand
Jeremy Taylor
Fritz Guy
Bill Witherington
William Lane Craig

[Darrell]

Quote:John Wesley

I didn't realize he was still doing translation work.

[Donb123]

(01-20-2012 08:16 AM)greg Wrote:  

(01-20-2012 12:54 AM)Donb123 Wrote:  Greg, I was wondering if you could name a handful of scholars that are not Calvinists?

Where to begin and then where to stop? Also, I hope I'm not being set-up to play my scholar is better than your scholar. Let me add, I offer these names with a caveat, these are simply men as you and I are men, I don't revere any of them, btw, I don't agree completely with any of them, these were some fellas that read and believed their bibles, sinful creatures like me. I follow one man, the man Christ Jesus.

So in no particular order:

C. Stephen Evans
Howard Marshall
John Wesley
Henry Hammond
Thomas Oden
Roger Olson
Norman Geisler
Hugo Grotius
William Abraham
Chad Owen Brand
Jeremy Taylor
Fritz Guy
Bill Witherington
William Lane Craig

It wasn't a setup at all. I read- a lot. I don't just read Reformed stuff either. These days I tend to read more Church Fathers, Orthodox, ancient Catholics, Anglicans, and the like. I've been baptist, pentecostal, presbyterian, anglican- you-name-it I've at least visited. I try to read authors on both sides of an issue to reach my own conclusion. From your list I've heard of maybe 3 and the only one I can say with any certainty is Geisler. Geisler is good on apologetics but he's no NT scholar and his work on the topics of predestination and election is laughable. I don't say that just because I happen to disagree but because it is so completely over-the-top biased because he cannot come to grips with the verses in the Bible that he goes through all these painful exercises to make it say what it doesn't say or denies what it actually says. He's just awful on the subject.

My point being was that quite a lot, certainly not all, but the majority of scholarly authors are in fact Reformed so it's not surprising that scholars on a translation committee would be well-represented from that camp.

[greg]

(01-20-2012 08:31 AM)Darrell Wrote:  

Quote:John Wesley

I didn't realize he was still doing translation work.

If this is directed at me, the question was not about translators, but about scholars, and I was assuming living or dead.

[greg]

(01-20-2012 08:57 AM)Donb123 Wrote:  

(01-20-2012 08:16 AM)greg Wrote:  Where to begin and then where to stop? Also, I hope I'm not being set-up to play my scholar is better than your scholar. Let me add, I offer these names with a caveat, these are simply men as you and I are men, I don't revere any of them, btw, I don't agree completely with any of them, these were some fellas that read and believed their bibles, sinful creatures like me. I follow one man, the man Christ Jesus.

So in no particular order:

C. Stephen Evans
Howard Marshall
John Wesley
Henry Hammond
Thomas Oden
Roger Olson
Norman Geisler
Hugo Grotius
William Abraham
Chad Owen Brand
Jeremy Taylor
Fritz Guy
Bill Witherington
William Lane Craig

It wasn't a setup at all. I read- a lot. I don't just read Reformed stuff either. These days I tend to read more Church Fathers, Orthodox, ancient Catholics, Anglicans, and the like. I've been baptist, pentecostal, presbyterian, anglican- you-name-it I've at least visited. I try to read authors on both sides of an issue to reach my own conclusion. From your list I've heard of maybe 3 and the only one I can say with any certainty is Geisler. Geisler is good on apologetics but he's no NT scholar and his work on the topics of predestination and election is laughable. I don't say that just because I happen to disagree but because it is so completely over-the-top biased because he cannot come to grips with the verses in the Bible that he goes through all these painful exercises to make it say what it doesn't say or denies what it actually says. He's just awful on the subject.

My point being was that quite a lot, certainly not all, but the majority of scholarly authors are in fact Reformed so it's not surprising that scholars on a translation committee would be well-represented from that camp.

Hey Don - I will agree with you somewhat about Geisler, he has done so much good work, and I do appreciate this saint of God, but frankly I believe I can defend my positions better than he as it relates to refuting calvinism.

I will also agree with you that there are great reformed men that have done fantastic translation work. My very favorite calvinist preacher is Charles Spurgeon, of course his reformed views were quite different from what many calvinsts of today espouse, but no doubt a fantastic thinker, in fact it pains me still that he could not get past some of his reformed thinking, but I remember that he was just a man, formed from the dust of the Earth, and then a product of his environment and upbringing.

I appreciate your usual well-thought-out comments, (I wish that I could express myself as good)

Now if I could just figure out how you got to be an RP fan

[Darrell]

(01-20-2012 09:13 AM)greg Wrote:  

(01-20-2012 08:31 AM)Darrell Wrote:  I didn't realize he was still doing translation work.

If this is directed at me, the question was not about translators, but about scholars, and I was assuming living or dead.

I was just being snarky. Feel free to ignore it.

[Fred]

I would encourage your children to really give the new church a fair chance and to ask God to show them what is truly important and to help them hold off on passing judgment on things that are just different.

Good advice. Thanks