Two Questions On Humanity

[Donb123]

(01-18-2012 08:02 PM)Tooktheredpill Wrote:  

(01-18-2012 07:42 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  The Bible may chronicle events, but it doesn't mean God necessarily approves of them. For instance, Ex. 21:16 indicates that forced slavery is not ok with God.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Did you specifically change to the NLT since many other translations says "servants" which is what most people think it means? People believe that what was being addressed was slaves-by-debt, etc., and not chattel slavery. It is alleged it wasn't nearly the same as owning other humans that one considered property. In fact, it's very likely that is not the case because one Greek dude probably didn't look at another Greek dude and think he was subhuman the way another person might because the person was a totally different color with different hair and facial features etc.

[Don]

(01-18-2012 07:42 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  

(01-18-2012 06:02 PM)Tooktheredpill Wrote:  I largely agree with you, Don. However, If your concept of human rights comes from a "Biblical worldview," it seems rather odd that you'd include slavery as the primary example of dehumanization that results from the rejection of that "worldview." After all, the various writers of the Bible surely don't seem to consider slavery to be very dehumanizing.

The Bible may chronicle events, but it doesn't mean God necessarily approves of them. For instance, Ex. 21:16 indicates that forced slavery is not ok with God.

Well put. Like many things in Christianity, just because it is done in the name of Christianity does not mean it is Christian. The Crusades, the Inquisition, and Slavery just to name a few. Do Christians do bad even wicked and evil things? Yes, sometimes we do. Not justifying sinful behavior but we are all made up of the same flawed material.

** while we're on the subject: The slavery that Paul speaks of is that of a bond slave. One who willingly devotes his life to serving a master. There is a great diference between the bond slave who loves his master and the one who is forced into a life of slavery. (ie the type of slavery found in American history) The bond slave was treated almost as one of the family. Look to Paul's letter to Philemon as the example for how masters should treat their slaves/indentured servants. Of course we also do not live under Roman rule, or in a predominately Roman culture, so our perception of slavery is much different than the reality many writers of scripture knew.

But have things changed so much? we hire ourselves out to taskmasters for our daily bread. Unless we happen to be a business owner who hires the laborors.

[steve95054]

Ok, a couple of things, not necessarily in any order:

-- Slavery is not necessarily a bad thing. It's the misuse of it that is. The Bible makes it quite clear that it's OK to own slaves, as long as you treat them with dignity and respect, take good care of them, and offer them their freedom if they want it, and give them enough money to establish themselves if they take it. In other words, slavery is OK, but slavery is not OK.

Treat them as equals, as humans, for so they are. Nowadays, this manifests more as a employer/employee relationship, but I would argue that for a vast majority of workers, there is little real difference between the ideal the Bible holds for slavery and the reality of their jobs, up to and including severance pay. In fact, under the New Testament ideal, being a slave is good work, if you can get it! haha...

-- As for the OP's second question: what exactly are "human rights"? Do we really have any? If so, what are they, and what makes them "rights" as opposed to "privileges" and what is the difference?