Bill Gothard/Christian Patriarchy

[Sharon]

(01-17-2012 10:46 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 02:15 PM)Sharon Wrote:  Punctuality: Showing high esteem for other people and their time.

lol, ok, I agree with this, though. If you have ever had a friend or relative who had a chronic lateness problem, you'll begin to feel very disrespected very quickly. There's nothing quite like having 15+ people ready to order dinner (including multiple small kids) and having to wait on one family of four ... for an hour. Or not being able to go into a fun place (zoo, kid's museum, whatever) because her family is running 30 minutes late. Again.

Every SINGLE time.

lol

I included that quote because imo it highlights one of the dangers of Gothardism. SO MUCH of what he sells is sensible, or normal, or good manners, or even just plain old reasonable, that the crazy gets hidden.

but there's definitely some crazy in there, including taking sex advice from a confirmed bachelor. (Gothard's level of involvement/teaching on every aspect of a Christian's life is invasive.)

[Tiarali]

lol. I think it's crazy that my old fundy pastor was giving marriage counselling to his own daughter and her cheating husband. And he's not ATI.

That website was very interesting. It's definitely not what I have experienced in fundamentalism, although I am sure that some of the homeschooling blogs I was reading were drinking this brand of kool-aid. I did get the whole abuse theme when I went to watch Tangled though. I was telling my fundy friend all about it, and how awesome the movie was, and how honestly I thought the themes were quite adult (ok, I get that someone who hasn't just gone and broken out of their tower - especially a kid - may not really get the themes, but to me they were hitting me so hard over the head I came out of the theatre with concussion). She just kind of looked at me blankly. To her it was just a kids' movie. Also, another article I read mentioned how someone was starting to try and work out who they are, what's their own identity, as a 30 year old adult. That's me. My life took a different path to get to this point, but that's where I am.

So yeah. Interesting site.

[aisforazebra]

I did an IBLP seminar in someone's home once. A family from my IFB church was into Gothardism and they hosted it. They were a really sweet family - I was friends with the wife and absolutely adored and looked up to her. I loved how she interacted with her kids and ran her home; she was very kind and happy, quiet and deliberate about God/spiritual things, went out of her way to love others, and... idk, there was just something about her that I hadn't seen before and was attracted to. Definitely did not see any sort of abuse going on within that family, and having grown up in an abusive family, I have kind of a radar for it. Anyway, of course I wanted to do the seminar, since whatever they were doing seemed to be working pretty darn well. Overall it was okay. Some of what Gothard said was ridiculous - like that jazz music is sinful because it's not "organized." And some, like Sharon said, was reasonable/sensible.

At the time, I didn't know anything about Gothard or patriarchy or any of the crazy. If I'd been a bit more gullible, I can easily see how I would have 100% bought into it, done the advanced seminar and the whole nine yards. I mean, it's not that bad at the beginning....

[dramaturge]

(01-18-2012 09:13 AM)aisforazebra Wrote:  At the time, I didn't know anything about Gothard or patriarchy or any of the crazy. If I'd been a bit more gullible, I can easily see how I would have 100% bought into it, done the advanced seminar and the whole nine yards. I mean, it's not that bad at the beginning....

It is that bad, it's just that the "that bad" is cushioned by "well, that does make sense." Everything is very logically consistent within the structure that Gothard has created by quoting verses and parts of verses out of context while extrapolating applications not remotely intended by said verses and parts of verses. Even the basic seminar and character sketches books really are that bad when you pull them out of their self-contained logic. My family dabbled in it. My aunt and uncle raised their children in it and by it. We went to two basic seminars. One of them was in high school, and I still have the handbook with my notes in it. When I go back and read the notes...well, it is that bad. I can't believe I actually wrote down some of the sentences I did in agreement with the tripe that was being taught. The families that do ATI look very good on the outside, which is what makes it seem so harmless, makes people justify the things that creep out from under the carpet. But there's a reason why so many of the kids who come out of it either explode into chaotic living or lead stunted, repressed lives filled with barely contained neurosis. A peer of my parents struggled most of his adult life because he felt "convicted" to always be asking for and following his parents' advice/wishes, because to otherwise would be dishonoring them and place him outside the "umbrella of authority and protection." This is a married man with a family. Anytime what he felt the Lord leading him to do went against what his parents wanted, he had serious troubles. That's just not right. /smallrant.