Bill Gothard/Christian Patriarchy

[redbeardiam]

I know this isn't the brand of craziness most us experienced , but I wondered for a long time how seemingly reasonable evangelicals (not KJV only, fire and brimstone types) were getting sucked into this whole patriarchy/quiverfull movement. It just seemed weird. What I didn't understand was that the granddaddy of it all seems to be Gothard. I heard his name growing up, but in a 'he's sort of weird' kind of way, never knew anything beyond that. I think we knew a few people who had gone to his seminars.

I'm thinking that a lot of people were attracted to homeschooling and through that, stumbled into Gothard's stuff or, more recently, Vision Forum. For somebody who doesn't have any formal relationship with Gothard, Doug Phillips seems to espouse precisely the same philosophy of family relationships.

The other way some people seem to have been drawn in is through the 'courtship' craze of the late 90s/early 2000s. Josh Harris may have popularized a version of it, but he was clearly drawing from the Gothard stuff as well.

All that to say... I guess I'm just curious to hear any stories or information you guys have about this movement. As far as the well known blogs go, I've glanced at No Longer Quivering, read most of the RazingRuth blog, and a lot of the Commandments of Men blog. (I don't know how well-known that one is, I heard about it here on another thread.) It's hard to find a robust narrative about how these leaders (Gothard, particularly) came to be who they are.

[pastor's wife]

I'd always heard that Gothard was too "out there" for us; my parents also felt he was too loose in his associations - they weren't all independent Baptists. I'm glad we didn't get involved in Gothard stuff, although many of his teachings were similar to how I was taught.

One of my favorite blogs about Gothardism is http://www.recoveringgrace.org written by those who grew up in the movement.

I love how the goal is to speak the truth and to point people to freedom and grace in Christ on that website.

[dramaturge]

This is an excellent book about Gothard: http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-Princ...0974252808

[Tikatu]

(01-17-2012 01:43 AM)pastors wife Wrote:  I'd always heard that Gothard was too "out there" for us; my parents also felt he was too loose in his associations - they weren't all independent Baptists. I'm glad we didn't get involved in Gothard stuff, although many of his teachings were similar to how I was taught.

One of my favorite blogs about Gothardism is http://www.recoveringgrace.com written by those who grew up in the movement.

I love how the goal is to speak the truth and to point people to freedom and grace in Christ on that website.

PW, your link takes me somewhere entirely different and I'm not sure why. I end up at http: // paininthebudget .com. (I broke the link; if the proper website has been hacked, I don't want to give the hackers any more traffic.)

[Sharon]

(01-17-2012 01:40 PM)Tikatu Wrote:  

(01-17-2012 01:43 AM)pastors wife Wrote:  I'd always heard that Gothard was too "out there" for us; my parents also felt he was too loose in his associations - they weren't all independent Baptists. I'm glad we didn't get involved in Gothard stuff, although many of his teachings were similar to how I was taught.

One of my favorite blogs about Gothardism is http://www.recoveringgrace.com written by those who grew up in the movement.

I love how the goal is to speak the truth and to point people to freedom and grace in Christ on that website.

PW, your link takes me somewhere entirely different and I'm not sure why. I end up at http: // paininthebudget .com. (I broke the link; if the proper website has been hacked, I don't want to give the hackers any more traffic.)

She gave you the wrong url--it's recoveringgrace.org, not .com.

Gothard's stuff was part of (maybe all of?) the adolescent psych curriculum at PCC back in my day. That, and his virtue definitions at the Wilds were the extent of my exposure.

Punctuality: Showing high esteem for other people and their time.

[pastor's wife]

Sorry! I often type it in wrong, and I thought I remembered that they were a dot com not a dot org.

I changed it. It really IS a good site! http://www.recoveringgrace.org

[Tikatu]

Thanks Sharon and PW. I've been trying to explain Gothardism to my daughter (mostly because of the Duggars' appearance at her old school). Not easy as it's gotten tied up with so much more stuff, like Quiverfull and Vision Forum. Reading some of the accounts in the "Snooping, Spying, and Snitching" article helped.

[Tiarali]

I think I came across such ideas, even though I'd never heard of Gothard, while I was homeschooling. There aren't that many homeschoolers here, so you do a lot of research for curriculum etc. online, and then find blogs and things written by other homeschoolers. There are a huge variety of homeschoolers out there, but I found myself gravitating to ones that had a more patriarchy-type view.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(01-17-2012 01:29 AM)redbeardiam Wrote:  I know this isn't the brand of craziness most us experienced , but I wondered for a long time how seemingly reasonable evangelicals (not KJV only, fire and brimstone types) were getting sucked into this whole patriarchy/quiverfull movement. It just seemed weird. What I didn't understand was that the granddaddy of it all seems to be Gothard. I heard his name growing up, but in a 'he's sort of weird' kind of way, never knew anything beyond that. I think we knew a few people who had gone to his seminars.

I'm thinking that a lot of people were attracted to homeschooling and through that, stumbled into Gothard's stuff or, more recently, Vision Forum. For somebody who doesn't have any formal relationship with Gothard, Doug Phillips seems to espouse precisely the same philosophy of family relationships.

The other way some people seem to have been drawn in is through the 'courtship' craze of the late 90s/early 2000s. Josh Harris may have popularized a version of it, but he was clearly drawing from the Gothard stuff as well.

All that to say... I guess I'm just curious to hear any stories or information you guys have about this movement. As far as the well known blogs go, I've glanced at No Longer Quivering, read most of the RazingRuth blog, and a lot of the Commandments of Men blog. (I don't know how well-known that one is, I heard about it here on another thread.) It's hard to find a robust narrative about how these leaders (Gothard, particularly) came to be who they are.

MY parents went to a series of Bill Gothard seminars, and it would have had to have been in the '80s. Is he still at it? Ugh.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(01-17-2012 02:15 PM)Sharon Wrote:  Punctuality: Showing high esteem for other people and their time.

lol, ok, I agree with this, though. If you have ever had a friend or relative who had a chronic lateness problem, you'll begin to feel very disrespected very quickly. There's nothing quite like having 15+ people ready to order dinner (including multiple small kids) and having to wait on one family of four ... for an hour. Or not being able to go into a fun place (zoo, kid's museum, whatever) because her family is running 30 minutes late. Again.

Every SINGLE time.