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squiz · 01-23-2012, 05:21 PM

(01-23-2012 09:02 AM)Darrell Wrote:
Quote:I am just curious, is abortion explicitely mentioned in the bible?

No, it's not. But a prohibition against the taking of innocent life is.

We have been gifted with tremendous technology that allows us to see the start of life in ways that Augustine or even scholars 100 years ago could never have done. We can see a human person forming. We understand the idea of DNA and how a fetus has a unique set that makes it fully a human being no matter what form it is in.

So my philosophy leads me to no other conclusion than that a fetus is an innocent human life and therefore that taking that life would be an immoral act.

The Bible provides the principles: Thou shalt not murder, protect the innocent, man is made in God's image. Technology provides us with the knowledge of what that life is and gives us a greater burden than perhaps people in time past had to bear.

Of course all cultures have always had laws against murder. The Bible is not alone there. No society can last long, if we go around killing each other.

Regarding modern technology and seeing a human person forming, I am curious how you view the question regarding identical twins? I think this question surely has some relevance to the question of embryo research. I wonder, if we learn how to trigger a human to develop from the DNA of the skin of my finger, what status that would have?

***Darrell*** · 01-23-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote: I am curious how you view the question regarding identical twins?

I reference having a unique DNA fingerprint only to point out that this is a separate entity that is not the mother. Whether there are one or two people with that same DNA is irrelevant.

Quote: if we learn how to trigger a human to develop from the DNA of the skin of my finger, what status that would have?

No idea. I'll take the time to think it through if and when it actually happens.

captain_solo · 01-23-2012, 08:01 PM

(01-23-2012 05:28 PM)Darrell Wrote:
Quote: I am curious how you view the question regarding identical twins?

I reference having a unique DNA fingerprint only to point out that this is a separate entity that is not the mother. Whether there are one or two people with that same DNA is irrelevant.

Quote: if we learn how to trigger a human to develop from the DNA of the skin of my finger, what status that would have?

No idea. I'll take the time to think it through if and when it actually happens.

Most fundies I know believe that is like the tower of Babel, God will never allow it to happen.

I personally can't wait till the Tlilaxu have my ghola replacement ready - and for the record, I believe that clones will require the passing of new laws, in fact we may end up with another civil rights problem. What will happen when a clone is created and the creator applies for a certificate of live birth? If a clone is born from a human womb, will it be considered fully human? Will a clone be considered 3/5ths of a person for the purpose of representation in Congress? Will be we able to "own" them? And if so, when will they lead a revolution to become considered as human as those born from unsanitary and illegal fluid transfer behaviors.

All things I am likely to never have to consider, but what do I do to prepare my kids and grandkids for such moral dilemmas?

squiz · 01-24-2012, 03:31 AM

(01-23-2012 08:01 PM)captain_solo Wrote: I personally can't wait till the Tlilaxu have my ghola replacement ready...

Ha ha.

Cloning is already possible. It is just that no one has bothered doing it with humans yet. Of course a clone would be a different human being just as twins are different to each other. I see no massive moral dilemma in creating a clone, I just wouldn't see the point.

The point of this and my question regarding twins, is that it calls into question the idea that the soul is imparted at conception. A single sperm meets a single egg and separates after a few days into two embryos which later become John and David. Before they separate, is the single embryo John or David or both?

Personally I think it makes much more sense to reject this magical idea of a soul and to talk instead of consciousness and to focus our energies on minimising the very real suffering occurring constantly all around us.

Donb123 · 01-24-2012, 08:27 AM

(01-24-2012 03:31 AM)squiz Wrote:
(01-23-2012 08:01 PM)captain_solo Wrote: I personally can't wait till the Tlilaxu have my ghola replacement ready...

Ha ha.

Cloning is already possible. It is just that no one has bothered doing it with humans yet. Of course a clone would be a different human being just as twins are different to each other. I see no massive moral dilemma in creating a clone, I just wouldn't see the point.

Point? That's easy. Spare parts Smile

**M Go Blue** · 01-24-2012, 10:40 AM

(01-17-2012 03:58 AM)Qrayze Wrote: Everything we do as a society says that unborn babies/fetuses/zygotes/embryos are not real humans.

If an unborn child is killed due to its mother being killed, attacked, etc., can't the perp get charged with murder for the unborn child? I could've sworn I've seen more than one occasion where a person is charged with murder if an unborn child is killed during the act of a crime he's committing.

***Darrell*** · 01-24-2012, 10:41 AM

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Vict...olence_Act

**exOBCstudent** · 01-24-2012, 10:42 AM

(01-24-2012 08:27 AM)Donb123 Wrote:
(01-24-2012 03:31 AM)squiz Wrote: Ha ha.

Cloning is already possible. It is just that no one has bothered doing it with humans yet. Of course a clone would be a different human being just as twins are different to each other. I see no massive moral dilemma in creating a clone, I just wouldn't see the point.

Point? That's easy. Spare parts

LOL! "You want to go to the Island".... Big Grin