I'm Christian, unless you're gay.

[JordanMaria]

(01-23-2012 03:32 PM)Tonx Wrote:  I'm beautiful in my way
'Cause God makes no mistakes
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way

Excuse me, I have to go listen to that song now.

[myotch]

Unfortunately, heading that way, JLL.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/NJ-jud...497924.php

If the rule of law can force a Methodist church to rent out a marriage pavilion on some scenic property, what's to stop the law from forcing a church who owns an historic building to allow same sex marriage there? Elsewhere? (I know in this case, the property was being rented out not by the church itself, but a corporation "affiliated" with the Methodist Church - in other words, likely the commercial arm of the Methodist Church).

This goes beyond religion - this is a private property issue, and a free speech issue as well.

In New Jersey, if you make rental property commercially available, you can't discriminate against potential users. So, the Methodist Church either cannot rent out the pavilion it owns, or it can't advertise that it is renting it out.

By not renting the pavilion to a lesbian couple, whose "rights" were trampled? By binding the Methodist Church regarding what it cannot do on it's own property or how they advertise, aren't the church's rights being trampled?

Again, what other issues arise for other churches? Is a church building of historical significance or artistic beauty or scenic views exempt from first amendment protection? What of their non-church property or facilities? How about if the church accepts government grants or loans or assists the government in welfare or emergency-supplies distribution - does it forfeit some of it's first amendment protections in private church matters?

Where are the lines drawn in private church affairs? I could easily see the government forcing a church to do a lot of things a church shouldn't do from an ideological stance.

Quote:It's not what people think about gay marriage that bothers me, it's what they try to do about it--basically force their beliefs on everyone else.

What are people doing about it that bothers you? Practicing free speech? Becoming politically active? Voting their conscience when the opportunity arises? Oh, the horrors.

In this battle, gays want a right that, historically and pre-last decade, has virtually never been granted. It's not a matter of minorities whose rights had been ignored, or whose treatment was philosophically/ideologically at odds with human rights recognized by the Constitution, or, incase of Natural Law, necessary for human liberty.

[Faith]

(01-23-2012 09:53 AM)greg Wrote:  I think I've been accused twice now of questioning Ricardo's salvation. I don't recall ever doing such a thing.

Does this ring a bell?

(01-22-2012 08:52 AM)greg Wrote:  How bout I suggest something different? Are you a christian? Does the Spirit of God reside inside of you?

[myotch]

[ignore this post]

[Qrayze]

the blog post is now available in audio/video

[Ricardo]

(01-23-2012 09:53 AM)greg Wrote:  I consider Ricardo to be a christian brother that I happen to disagree with very much.

The teaching of the bible regarding the wickedness/sinfulness of homosexuality is clear

Thank you Greg.

I'm not sure if I disagree with you since you have not presented your conclusion on how to translate MALAKOS.

And you did bring up Sodom and Gomorrah, which have nothing to do with homosexuality. (It was an attempted rape of angels.) so I'm not sure where in the bible you come up with your idea that "the wickedness/sinfulness of homosexuality is clear"

It is NOT clear in Gen18-19. It is NOT clear in 1Cor6

[Ricardo]

(01-23-2012 02:14 PM)myotch Wrote:  I doubt, from year 500AD to 1960AD there was a major delineation between the terms "homosexual", "effeminate", "male prostitute", and "pervert" when applied to a single word in ancient text.

Arguing the different description of the word in question is like arguing the modern meaning of "twink", "bear", "queen", and "b-boy", when the common theme through the words is "homosexual".

"effeminate" has all to do with how much testosterone your body produces. You can have effeminate men who have sex with other men and effeminate men who are celibate. Are you saying God doesn't care what you do, if your body doesn't produce enough testosterone you will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?

"male prostitute" is a man who sells sex to women.

I've got news for you: the common theme through all those definitions is SEX.

[myotch]

We are to believe that in ancient Israel, which was patriarchal and misogynistic, had women with enough disposable income to hire for what the local farmhand couldn't provide? Methinks you are giving modern credit to an ancient culture.

We are also to believe the ancient texts were written with full knowledge of the macho behavior and the body chemistry that causes it.

C'mon, Ricky. You think and write better than this. What was the INTENT of the writing?

[greg]

(01-23-2012 07:25 PM)Faith Wrote:  

(01-23-2012 09:53 AM)greg Wrote:  I think I've been accused twice now of questioning Ricardo's salvation. I don't recall ever doing such a thing.

Does this ring a bell?

(01-22-2012 08:52 AM)greg Wrote:  How bout I suggest something different? Are you a christian? Does the Spirit of God reside inside of you?

Yes it does ring a bell, it was a response to (tchaiko) who, to my knowledge, had not stated that they were a christian.

It's confusing enough for me to keep up with you picking me apart, and then this bit of confusion. Try and keep up!

[greg]

(01-23-2012 11:55 AM)JLL Wrote:  I've never understood why homosexuality is the "sin" that seems to bother people the most. Sometimes I think religious folks would have a better opinion of a murderer or a warmonger than they would of two gay people in a committed relationship. It just seems like we are viewed as the ultimate evil (well, us and abortion doctors). I wonder why...

Good question. It's been answered many times. So let's answer it again.

It's the "sin" that misguided, wicked sinners attempt to make "ok." No one is attempting to promote adultery as a wonderful lifestyle, and vigorously seek their "rights." No murderers are yelling that, hey I can't help it, this is the way that God made me, well maybe they are, but it is so foolish no one pays attention. I don't see any dog "lovers" joining together and lobbying Congress to have marriages to their pets "sanctioned" by the government.

Homosexuals, you should actually be glad, you are winning! There appears to be just a handful of us folks that will stand up in the face of this withering assault of wickedness. Unless God moves miraculously in this country you will get all you want and more, personally, and I certainly don't know what God has in store for this country. But just as God destroyed the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah, I believe judgement is coming for the good ol US of A. , and may I add we deserve it!