I'm Christian, unless you're gay.

[FmrMarine]

(01-20-2012 11:40 AM)Tonx Wrote:  I don't really get this whole "gay lifestyle" thing. What exactly IS the "gay lifestyle?" I look at a gay couple that I'm friends with, and their lifestyle includes travelling, going out to bars on the weekend, playing video games, going out to movies, working at the Tim Horton's, playing with their rabbit Jubbs... Um, that sounds pretty much like the "heterosexual lifestyle." What?

The gay lifestyle is all of that plus anal sex or hot lesbian action. That's pretty much the difference. The more you know... (cue NBC music)

[Donb123]

(01-21-2012 09:50 AM)FmrMarine Wrote:  

(01-20-2012 11:40 AM)Tonx Wrote:  I don't really get this whole "gay lifestyle" thing. What exactly IS the "gay lifestyle?" I look at a gay couple that I'm friends with, and their lifestyle includes travelling, going out to bars on the weekend, playing video games, going out to movies, working at the Tim Horton's, playing with their rabbit Jubbs... Um, that sounds pretty much like the "heterosexual lifestyle." What?

The gay lifestyle is all of that plus anal sex or hot lesbian action. That's pretty much the difference. The more you know... (cue NBC music)

My take on it would be that the going out and doing "regular" things is what "regular" dudes do who happen to be homosexual. "Gay lifestyle" brings to my mind images of flamers spanking each others asses on floats and protesting stuff in drag and being over the top and scaring everyone. The regular dudes nobody minds. The "gay lifestyle" dudes don't really get any of the props they're looking for because they offend/irritate/scare/worry people. People don't mind different but they're put off by "out there."

Just my thoughts anyway.

[Tchaiko]

(01-21-2012 09:29 AM)greg Wrote:  You went to some trouble to prove a point, and it appears to me that you actually "defeated" yourself! Context Ricardo, Context! Not just in this passage (1 Cor 6) but the entire context of the entire bible, beginning in Genesis with the creation account of Adam and Eve all the way to the destruction of San Franci.........er.........Sodom and Gomorrah to numerous passages all through the New Testament. May I yell??? There is no ambiguity regarding the wickedness of homosexuality in the bible none!!!!!!!!!! Some are involved in a discussion about the morality of God in another thread, they are discussing the OT God compared to Jesus and the NT God, I have laid off of that thread, may jump in at some point, but an intelligent, for the most part conversation is going on, with several different opinions, I would submit there is some ambiguity there. In another thread which so far I have stayed out of, but certainly have enjoyed reading the thoughts on is the "What are your thoughts" Some very good, honest questions were asked by dthatcher, some of these questions were "wrestled" with by several, PW posted a great comment today, which I mostly agree with (seldom disagree with this wonderful lady) however, if you had a different opinion and expressed that opinion, fine, I believe there is some ambiguity there. But not as it relates to homosexuality!!! There is simply no question about homosexuality, that is if you believe the bible!! I pm'd you about this in the past, so don't know if I will be responding to anything you say back, at least not in the forum, but I know you do have some biblical education, but I seriously would put it to better use. Attempting to "make" God's Word say something that it clearly does not, is not helping anyone. Btw, ref to the PM (above) note I have not engaged you on anything for awhile, but I don't want folks who are seriously searching for answers to hard questions to be led astray by someone who appears to have some biblical understanding. We have at least a few homosexuals who come here regularly, I have no doubt that some of them love the Lord, and are attempting to honor Him with their lives, putting downright "wrong" information on here, from someone that appears to have some "education" simply does not help them.

[Tchaiko]

(01-21-2012 09:29 AM)greg Wrote:  We have at least a few homosexuals who come here regularly, I have no doubt that some of them love the Lord, and are attempting to honor Him with their lives, putting downright "wrong" information on here, from someone that appears to have some "education" simply does not help them.

I think we need to get something cleared up. Jenni, Diachenko, I, and a few others have accepted ourselves. That means we're not still looking for everyone to agree with us. Whether or not an armchair theologian (with apologies to Ricardo. I admire you very much.) on a fundy recovery forum does not validate or invalidate my beliefs. The issue was settled in my mind long before I discovered SFL. I have plenty of other sources to use, anyways. Ricardo's brilliant orations neither make me more nor less accepting of myself. That issue is already taken care of. I come here for entertainment, community, sometimes a good debate, and to get lots of different viewpoints. What I do NOT do is get my doctrinal standings by popular vote. I believe I am speaking for Jenni and Diachenko as well. And others.

Your previous statement stank of English supremacy. "I don't care if that's what the Greek word meant!! The Bible says this!!" Only you forget that the Bible was in Greek first. It actually does matter what the Greek says. A lot.

It would be wasting my time to challenge you to find one verse that directly linked God's punishment on Sodom and Gommorrah to homosexuality.

I would, however, ask you to ponder something. How can it be that educated, intelligent men differ with you on this issue? Do you know something that a Ph.D. in Bible wouldn't know? I'm not saying at all to agree with them just because they're smart. I know plenty of smart, educated people who would take your side. What I'm asking you to ponder is "If people have devoted their entire lives to studying, and they've concluded that homosexuality is not a sin, can I, from just a brief, cursory look at what I think the English Bible says, be so adamant about there being no ambiguity?"

[Ricardo]

(01-21-2012 09:29 AM)greg Wrote:  Context Ricardo, Context! Not just in this passage (1 Cor 6) but the entire context of the entire bible, beginning in Genesis with the creation account of Adam and Eve all the way to the destruction of San Franci.........er.........Sodom and Gomorrah to numerous passages all through the New Testament.
...
There is no ambiguity regarding the wickedness of homosexuality in the bible none!!!!!!!!!!
...
Attempting to "make" God's Word say something that it clearly does not, is not helping anyone.

OK so here is the routine:
First, proof-text. If that blows up in your face, then go with "Context."

How do you translate "MALAKOS"?.

This is important. Many men have been ostracized from church and from society in general for being effeminate, based on a bad translation of MALAKOS. Shall God require them to get testosterone shots before he accepts them?

Take a hard look at those translations: Effeminate is very different from Male Prostitute, which is very different from pervert.

What did you say?

Oh yes: "Attempting to "make" God's Word say something that it clearly does not, is not helping anyone."


I thought we had taken care of Sodom and Gomorrah. Here goes my post from way back:

(10-21-2011 11:07 PM)Ricardo Wrote:  Lessons from the Sodom and Gomorrah Story:

1. God does not know what is going on. (Has to send someone to find out.)
2. Abraham shows much more grace and compassion than God. (Gen 18)
3. Angels are male.
4. Lot is considered "Just" for trying to give his virgin daughters to be gang raped.
5. Lot does not risk a fingernail to defend his visitors.
6. Women should not hang out with rapists.
7. Children should choose their parents well.
8. Lot's wife. Just one look. That's all it took.
9. No matter the littany of Sodom and Gomorrah's sins described in Ezekiel 16, Isaiah 1 and 13, Jeremiah 23 and II Peter 2, we will ignore all of them and instead make up a different sin, homosexuality, yeah that's it. Even if it is not mentioned in any of those passages.
10. Forget the NT. If you sin, you die.

I can't believe you would even hint at destroying San Francisco for the sins of what? 10% of the population? Of course God cannot find even ten righteous men in San Francisco! Are you suggesting he can find 10 just men in your neck of the woods?

Is Matthew 24 in your "context?" How are we to treat the "Jacobs" of this world?

Certainly not by making God's Word say something that it clearly does not.

[diachenko]

(01-21-2012 12:21 PM)Tchaiko Wrote:  

(01-21-2012 09:29 AM)greg Wrote:  You went to some trouble to prove a point, and it appears to me that you actually "defeated" yourself! Context Ricardo, Context! Not just in this passage (1 Cor 6) but the entire context of the entire bible, beginning in Genesis with the creation account of Adam and Eve all the way to the destruction of San Franci.........er.........Sodom and Gomorrah to numerous passages all through the New Testament. May I yell??? There is no ambiguity regarding the wickedness of homosexuality in the bible none!!!!!!!!!! Some are involved in a discussion about the morality of God in another thread, they are discussing the OT God compared to Jesus and the NT God, I have laid off of that thread, may jump in at some point, but an intelligent, for the most part conversation is going on, with several different opinions, I would submit there is some ambiguity there. In another thread which so far I have stayed out of, but certainly have enjoyed reading the thoughts on is the "What are your thoughts" Some very good, honest questions were asked by dthatcher, some of these questions were "wrestled" with by several, PW posted a great comment today, which I mostly agree with (seldom disagree with this wonderful lady) however, if you had a different opinion and expressed that opinion, fine, I believe there is some ambiguity there. But not as it relates to homosexuality!!! There is simply no question about homosexuality, that is if you believe the bible!! I pm'd you about this in the past, so don't know if I will be responding to anything you say back, at least not in the forum, but I know you do have some biblical education, but I seriously would put it to better use. Attempting to "make" God's Word say something that it clearly does not, is not helping anyone. Btw, ref to the PM (above) note I have not engaged you on anything for awhile, but I don't want folks who are seriously searching for answers to hard questions to be led astray by someone who appears to have some biblical understanding. We have at least a few homosexuals who come here regularly, I have no doubt that some of them love the Lord, and are attempting to honor Him with their lives, putting downright "wrong" information on here, from someone that appears to have some "education" simply does not help them.

Ha! You beat me to it.

[greg]

(01-21-2012 12:56 PM)Tchaiko Wrote:  

(01-21-2012 09:29 AM)greg Wrote:  We have at least a few homosexuals who come here regularly, I have no doubt that some of them love the Lord, and are attempting to honor Him with their lives, putting downright "wrong" information on here, from someone that appears to have some "education" simply does not help them.

I think we need to get something cleared up. Jenni, Diachenko, I, and a few others have accepted ourselves. That means we're not still looking for everyone to agree with us. Whether or not an armchair theologian (with apologies to Ricardo. I admire you very much.) on a fundy recovery forum does not validate or invalidate my beliefs. The issue was settled in my mind long before I discovered SFL. I have plenty of other sources to use, anyways. Ricardo's brilliant orations neither make me more nor less accepting of myself. That issue is already taken care of. I come here for entertainment, community, sometimes a good debate, and to get lots of different viewpoints. What I do NOT do is get my doctrinal standings by popular vote. I believe I am speaking for Jenni and Diachenko as well. And others.

Your previous statement stank of English supremacy. "I don't care if that's what the Greek word meant!! The Bible says this!!" Only you forget that the Bible was in Greek first. It actually does matter what the Greek says. A lot.

It would be wasting my time to challenge you to find one verse that directly linked God's punishment on Sodom and Gommorrah to homosexuality.

I would, however, ask you to ponder something. How can it be that educated, intelligent men differ with you on this issue? Do you know something that a Ph.D. in Bible wouldn't know? I'm not saying at all to agree with them just because they're smart. I know plenty of smart, educated people who would take your side. What I'm asking you to ponder is "If people have devoted their entire lives to studying, and they've concluded that homosexuality is not a sin, can I, from just a brief, cursory look at what I think the English Bible says, be so adamant about there being no ambiguity?"

"I don't care what the Greek word meant" ........this is a phrase never uttered by me.

"Only you forget that the bible was first in Greek" ........With this statement you demonstrate your lack of knowledge about our bible and how it came to be, and that is why folks like Ricardo, that have a degree of intelligence can lead folks like yourself astray. The OT was written in Hebrew, the NT for the most part was written in Greek, with just abit of Aramaic. Jesus and the apostles spoke Aramaic, Matthew being the exception, as a govt official he probably spoke Greek as well as Aramaic.

Ricardo and his "malakos" demonstrate not how "different" or hard it is to translate (btw translation work is difficult) but how extremely reliable our good translations are, now I will grant you some in his list of translations were not so good, but even those that aren't so good denote "sexual perversness."

How bout I suggest something different? Are you a christian? Does the Spirit of God reside inside of you? And do you consider the bible as the Word of God? If not, this ain't probably gonna help you. I believe in a powerful, living God that answers the prayers of his people. Go to Him humbly, and throw all of these questions on Him and allow Him to speak to you about these matters through His Spirit. The Holy Spirit resides in every single one of His children, again no ambiguity here at all,

"You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Romans 8:9

I hate no one, but that does not mean I will not share "hard" truths with you. The Word is a double-edged sword, living and powerful, the same word that shapes/chastens you does the very same thing to me. But remember "Whom the Lord loves them he also chastens/ corrects" This is actually good, it's an evidence/demonstration that we are saved.

I send thoughts and prayers of grace hope and peace to you!

[Faith]

SFL: questioning others' salvation.

[greg]

(01-22-2012 02:03 PM)Faith Wrote:  SFL: questioning others' salvation.

I did not question anyone's faith, I merely asked if they were saved. If the questioned person responds "yes I am saved" and then I said "are you sure" and gave them the Romans Road, now I have begun to question their salvation.

I seriously hope you don't search for fault in everything your friends say like you do to me.

"Whatsoever is true, whatsoever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things."

May I have a bit of grace and patience please?

[Faith]

You did question Ricardo's salvation. And you go there every time someone disagrees with you.