Can we judge the Morality of God?

[Tooktheredpill]

Quote:I also believe that God being God can do whatever he wants and it will be good.

Do you accept Divine command theory?

[lucrezaborgia]

(01-11-2012 11:39 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  I don't have any need to hold him to my standard of what I perceive to be morality.

So you do have morality that is outside of the god?

[Donb123]

(01-11-2012 11:51 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote:  

(01-11-2012 11:39 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  I don't have any need to hold him to my standard of what I perceive to be morality.

So you do have morality that is outside of the god?

My ability to conceive of morality is imperfect.

[Donb123]

(01-11-2012 11:44 PM)Tooktheredpill Wrote:  

Quote:I also believe that God being God can do whatever he wants and it will be good.

Do you accept Divine command theory?

I dunno what that is. I'm not saying God can do something "bad" and just cause he does it it is deemed to be "good." I'm saying that God is love and God is good so whatever he does is good despite my inability to understand it. That's just simply acknowledging his revealed character and my lack thereof.

[Tooktheredpill]

(01-11-2012 11:54 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  

(01-11-2012 11:44 PM)Tooktheredpill Wrote:  Do you accept Divine command theory?

I dunno what that is. I'm not saying God can do something "bad" and just cause he does it it is deemed to be "good." I'm saying that God is love and God is good so whatever he does is good despite my inability to understand it. That's just simply acknowledging his revealed character and my lack thereof.

That it is basically my view, also. However, I believe that the most complete revelation of what God is like is Jesus Christ. And I'm willing to question biblical content when it doesn't line up with the God that is revealed by Jesus.

I have no doubt that Jesus would oppose the killing of infants and women. So, I don't believe that I'm judging the morality of God by rejecting those abhorrent caricatures. Rather, I'm viewing them through the lens of Jesus.

[Darrell]

Quote:I have no doubt that Jesus would oppose the killing of infants and women

Yet Jesus quoted the Old Testament as authoritative and affirmed instead of repudiating the God of the Old Testament.

Is that problematic to your view of him?

[greg]

(01-11-2012 08:54 PM)Presbygirl Wrote:  

(01-11-2012 11:48 AM)greg Wrote:  I have enjoyed some of White's teachings, he is very brilliant, if you don't believe me just ask him! Seriously, he is a good thinker, and I believe he is sincere in trying to help people. His book on bible translations is one of the best out there, he is a very keen debater, however when it comes to supporting the man-made theology that calls itself calvinism, he fails woefully and completely. I watched a video of him trying to teach about some of the beliefs of calvinism, now this after I had seen him tear apart Islam apologists, and KJVonly's, he seemed like a mere shadow of his former know-it-all self, I wished so much that I could have been in that crowd!!! Why? Because plainly and simply and with my eyes closed I can refute calvinism easily with the precious and Holy Word of God. Indeed God's ways are above our ways, and may I say far, far above some silly man-made theology.

Does believing in the God of calvinism make God a "moral monster" I don't know about that, I can't find the God of calvinism at all in my bible, if anybody does let me know, certainly John Calvin didn't.

Frankly I'm shocked that a site like SFL has so many reformed folks. Many of you left a man-worshipping faith and then walked right into another man-made faith (calvinism) Baffling!! Calvinism is not supported by scripture.

Salvation is a gift of God, you don't make folks take gifts. "How shall you escape if you neglect such a great salvation" (well I didn't know I could reject/neglect salvation, John Calvin never told me about that, reformed friends, John Calvin didn't tell you about alot of things!!)

Don't be shocked Greg, reformed theology makes sense!! And by the way! John Calvin wasn't a Calvinist! It wasn't until after the fact, in response to Arminianism, that his students, formed "Calvinism."

And while Salvation is a "gift" it is not a "gift" in the sense that it is a door prize waiting to be collected. God is not "biting His nails" wondering will this person or won't this person "accept" me. This world is plan "A" Greg. This world isn't Plan "B" in response to the sin in the garden. God didn't send Jesus because "He didnt know what else to do." The whole earth and every event that has happened is and has always been in the plan of our sovereign God. Every soul accounted for before creation!!!!!

Our Sovereign God created a salvation plan that allowed his creation to choose or not choose Him, after they are drawn by the Spirit, and (all) are drawn, if not verses like Hebrews 2:3 "How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation" and thousands of other verses make absolutely no sense.

I learned years ago about the wrongness of this man-created philosphy (calvinism) but as I continue to debate I see how the calvinist attempts to argue and I'm learning how to defend the bible even better. For instance, you have done just as others have done, with your questioning about the word "gifts" I think everyone on here including fmrmarine, knows what a gift is, but you must attempt to explain "gifts" in order for this tortured philosphy to make sense. Salvation is a gift, it must be accepted, if it is not accepted, you don't possess said gift!! It's so simple! Yet so very hard for the calvinist that has "bought" into that teaching, just read your bible and believe it, don't let some man interpret it for you. Calvinists do the same thing with the word "all." Incredible!!

"This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in proper time." 1 Timothy 2:3-6......................"My dear children. I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense - Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1-2

Just these couple of verses forces the type of handstands you were doing over the word "gift" can't you see the futility of this man-made doctrine.

You have been "fooled" by men friend, come out from among them.

[Presbygirl]

(01-12-2012 09:23 AM)greg Wrote:  

(01-11-2012 08:54 PM)Presbygirl Wrote:  Don't be shocked Greg, reformed theology makes sense!! And by the way! John Calvin wasn't a Calvinist! It wasn't until after the fact, in response to Arminianism, that his students, formed "Calvinism."

And while Salvation is a "gift" it is not a "gift" in the sense that it is a door prize waiting to be collected. God is not "biting His nails" wondering will this person or won't this person "accept" me. This world is plan "A" Greg. This world isn't Plan "B" in response to the sin in the garden. God didn't send Jesus because "He didnt know what else to do." The whole earth and every event that has happened is and has always been in the plan of our sovereign God. Every soul accounted for before creation!!!!!

Our Sovereign God created a salvation plan that allowed his creation to choose or not choose Him, after they are drawn by the Spirit, and (all) are drawn, if not verses like Hebrews 2:3 "How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation" and thousands of other verses make absolutely no sense.

I learned years ago about the wrongness of this man-created philosphy (calvinism) but as I continue to debate I see how the calvinist attempts to argue and I'm learning how to defend the bible even better. For instance, you have done just as others have done, with your questioning about the word "gifts" I think everyone on here including fmrmarine, knows what a gift is, but you must attempt to explain "gifts" in order for this tortured philosphy to make sense. Salvation is a gift, it must be accepted, if it is not accepted, you don't possess said gift!! It's so simple! Yet so very hard for the calvinist that has "bought" into that teaching, just read your bible and believe it, don't let some man interpret it for you. Calvinists do the same thing with the word "all." Incredible!!

"This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in proper time." 1 Timothy 2:3-6......................"My dear children. I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense - Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1-2

Just these couple of verses forces the type of handstands you were doing over the word "gift" can't you see the futility of this man-made doctrine.

You have been "fooled" by men friend, come out from among them.

Ok. There's plenty of other Calvy threads here, thats for sure. This isChris1000bc's thread. You are my brother-in-Christ and I respectfully disagree. Praise God we are both redeemed!

[Tooktheredpill]

(01-12-2012 06:28 AM)Darrell Wrote:  

Quote:I have no doubt that Jesus would oppose the killing of infants and women

Yet Jesus quoted the Old Testament as authoritative and affirmed instead of repudiating the God of the Old Testament.

Is that problematic to your view of him?

I'd agree that Jesus affirmed a continuity with the story of the Hebrew scriptures. That doesn't mean he accepted every image of God revealed in those scriptures as accurate.

Also, the whole issue of accommodation comes into play.

[Darrell]

Quote:That doesn't mean he accepted every image of God revealed in those scriptures as accurate.

Qui tacet consentire. He at the very least isn't recorded as rejecting them.