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Away-From-The-Umbrella · 01-09-2012, 03:40 PM

(01-09-2012 02:06 PM)Wannagetout Wrote:
Quote:It would be cool if you would give a field report from the March Banquet. Thinking as a SFL reporter might also help you keep proper perspective during the manipulation onslaught.

I may just have to do that. I've been keeping notes during the service in such a way; just not brave enough to post any- yet.

I always found it interesting that they post sermons online, but not the a building banquet...I wonder why that is?

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm....

**M Go Blue** · 01-11-2012, 10:32 AM

The only fundraiser I can think of that happens at my (non-IFB) fundamental baptist church is our yearly Christmas offering. An envelope is sent out with a letter explaining what it's for (usually for some project at the church, people who might need some financial help, or missionaries). An announcement (or two, at most) is made a few weeks before as a reminder at that's it.

During the yearly business meeting everyone who attends gets a copy of the budget so people can look it over and bring up expenses and things that they have questions on. I go to a decently-sized church (approx 900-1000) and many are very generous with what they have, as long as it doesn't put an undue burden on them. I've never heard any browbeating from the pastoral staff on how people need to give money. Heck, I've rarely given in the past 5 years due to finances and I've not gotten on nasty gram, dirty stare, or condemnation about it.

Templewoman · 01-11-2012, 07:51 PM

Fundraising??? In our (old) church that was politely called Faith Promise Giving. Fundraising - how unelegant is that.
Nightmare stories? Giving way more than we could afford, given our total debt/mortgage, and then the church not helping us with the cost for a week of expensive marriage counseling. Like, sometimes they would take up an offering for "a family in need", but I guess that wasn't us. Having worked in the R/U ministry for free for ten years (while the Friday night baby sitters got paid) apparently didn't mean anything either. And the fact that the pressure from the ministry contributed to our marriage problems. I mean, we were working in secular jobs, this ministry was after hours.
And the financial seminar with Kimmel who told us we owed a back tithe for the years not spent in church, and we needed to tithe on, say, gifts. So, hypothetically, if my Mom passes down the family heirlooms, I better have some cash around to tithe on them. Needing to tithe on my time, where God gets 10 percent. Imagine me telling my husband, honey, I'll cook, clean, and iron clothes for 10% out of every 24 hours, but the rest of the time is MINE. That goes with that whole full time servant thinking, if the ones with the secular paychecks pay your bills, somehow you're more spiritual than the rest of them.
I heard Gibbs at Fundraisers, he could talk a burn victim into handing over the Silvadene cream. He defended Tom Messer's ministry in the Bob Gray case, that is so low.

Away-From-The-Umbrella · 01-11-2012, 08:26 PM

(01-11-2012 07:51 PM)Templewoman Wrote: Fundraising??? In our (old) church that was politely called Faith Promise Giving. Fundraising - how unelegant is that.

Yeah, we had faith promise giving too - during the annual missions conference in the fall. (The annual building banquet was every March. Then there was the Thanksgiving offering, etc. Fleecing the flock was always in season at that church.) I consider the entire Faith Promise Giving concept wicked. We are not to speak for God and say if we pledge X amount God is now somehow obligated to provide. Don Sisk pushed this concept hard.

(01-11-2012 07:51 PM)Templewoman Wrote: Nightmare stories? Giving way more than we could afford, given our total debt/mortgage, and then the church not helping us with the cost for a week of expensive marriage counseling. Like, sometimes they would take up an offering for "a family in need", but I guess that wasn't us. Having worked in the R/U ministry for free for ten years (while the Friday night baby sitters got paid) apparently didn't mean anything either. And the fact that the pressure from the ministry contributed to our marriage problems. I mean, we were working in secular jobs, this ministry was after hours.
And the financial seminar with Kimmel who told us we owed a back tithe for the years not spent in church, and we needed to tithe on, say, gifts. So, hypothetically, if my Mom passes down the family heirlooms, I better have some cash around to tithe on them. Needing to tithe on my time, where God gets 10 percent. Imagine me telling my husband, honey, I'll cook, clean, and iron clothes for 10% out of every 24 hours, but the rest of the time is MINE. That goes with that whole full time servant thinking, if the ones with the secular paychecks pay your bills, somehow you're more spiritual than the rest of them.

That seriously sucks. I am sorry to hear you went through that. I thought salvation was free - who knew you were gonna get hit up with a bill? I hope you found a healthier church that teaches more biblically.

(01-11-2012 07:51 PM)Templewoman Wrote: I heard Gibbs at Fundraisers, he could talk a burn victim into handing over the Silvadene cream.

Oh yes, he could...

(01-11-2012 07:51 PM)Templewoman Wrote: He defended Tom Messer's ministry in the Bob Gray case, that is so low.

It definitely was low. and sick.
I don't think he has a conscience (IMHO).

**Qrayze** · 01-11-2012, 08:51 PM

(01-11-2012 07:51 PM)Templewoman Wrote: Fundraising??? In our (old) church that was politely called Faith Promise Giving. Fundraising - how unelegant is that.
Nightmare stories? Giving way more than we could afford, given our total debt/mortgage, and then the church not helping us with the cost for a week of expensive marriage counseling. Like, sometimes they would take up an offering for "a family in need", but I guess that wasn't us. Having worked in the R/U ministry for free for ten years (while the Friday night baby sitters got paid) apparently didn't mean anything either. And the fact that the pressure from the ministry contributed to our marriage problems. I mean, we were working in secular jobs, this ministry was after hours.
And the financial seminar with Kimmel who told us we owed a back tithe for the years not spent in church, and we needed to tithe on, say, gifts. So, hypothetically, if my Mom passes down the family heirlooms, I better have some cash around to tithe on them. Needing to tithe on my time, where God gets 10 percent. Imagine me telling my husband, honey, I'll cook, clean, and iron clothes for 10% out of every 24 hours, but the rest of the time is MINE. That goes with that whole full time servant thinking, if the ones with the secular paychecks pay your bills, somehow you're more spiritual than the rest of them.
I heard Gibbs at Fundraisers, he could talk a burn victim into handing over the Silvadene cream. He defended Tom Messer's ministry in the Bob Gray case, that is so low.

Kimmel? as in Tom Kimmel from FBCH?

I think i was a senior in highschool when all the Faith Promise and Back Tithing shit started getting preached there. All wrapped up in the Wednesday Evening Bible Studies of How To Get Out Of Debt, or something like that.

My fundy bro actually asked my parents how much his c-mas gifts cost so he could make sure he tithed on them. So blind. So so blind.

**Tiarali** · 01-11-2012, 09:47 PM

My old church added a word on to faith promise, and made it faith promise missions. They have their missions conference in February, and they do a faith promise offering for people to pledge to give specifically for missions, on top of their tithe and giving and all that stuff. I never knew faith promise could be for anything but.

**Perry** · 01-11-2012, 10:37 PM

@Tiarali That sounds just like my fundy church, except their missions conference started today and ends Friday.

I laid out today and did homework instead.

I've only heard "faith promise" used in reference to giving for missions.

**Phatchick** · 01-12-2012, 12:39 AM

The ones that always got me were the offering envelopes they sent out every year with the little numbers on the upper right hand corner. We were told to use them so nobody would know how much we were giving but anyone with the brains God gave a goldfish could figure out that the treasurer would know but comparing names and numbers (even easier if you'd written checks). And he'd tip off the pastor as to who the big contributors were. I never used mine, I figured my offering was between me and God. Pastor didn't really like that my envelopes never got picked up but that was his issue, not mine.

C_Fresh · (This post was last modified: 01-12-2012 09:48 AM by C_Fresh.)

(01-12-2012 12:39 AM)Phatchick Wrote: The ones that always got me were the offering envelopes they sent out every year with the little numbers on the upper right hand corner. We were told to use them so nobody would know how much we were giving but anyone with the brains God gave a goldfish could figure out that the treasurer would know but comparing names and numbers (even easier if you'd written checks). And he'd tip off the pastor as to who the big contributors were. I never used mine, I figured my offering was between me and God. Pastor didn't really like that my envelopes never got picked up but that was his issue, not mine.

The fundy college I went to required students who atteneded their church (the one that ran the college) - so that was all of them that weren't close enough to go home on the weekends - were required to tithe using numbered envelopes. I believe that was actually in the handbook.

Away-From-The-Umbrella · (This post was last modified: 01-12-2012 02:05 PM by Away-From-The-Umbrella.)

And then there were the unbiblical public hand-raising offerings, which started at $5,000 increments, and worked there way down to $1... so no one had an excuse not to participate.

For example, one time the guy sitting in front of me decided to give $15k, so he held up three fingers when the $5k level was announced. He often seemed to get choice parts in cantatas...wonder why that is? Meh - I guess he "has his reward".

The asst. pastors and other staff each took a section of the audience and made notes to create a tally of $$$$$$ pledged.

So much for the Bible verse:

Matthew 6:2-4

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.