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FmrMarine · 12-31-2011, 01:16 PM

(12-31-2011 11:31 AM)Ricardo Wrote: Fundamentals.

If I believe in God, try to love him with everything I've got, repent of my dastardly ways, try to live in a way that pleases Him in addition to trying to love my neighbor as myself.

Are you saying that God will only accept this IF it is accompanied with a magical prayer and a filled out checklist of approved doctrines?

Can we handle snakes or can't we?

I doubt you have any "dastardly ways." You are probably a pretty decent human being and you don't need god to be good to your neighbors. Now if religion helps you deal with the eventual death that awaits us all, then so be it. I would submit that there is a good chance the world would be a better place if everyone realized this is the only life we get. We get our 75 - 80 years, and that's it. It makes all of the other nonsense trivial. As far as talking snakes, talking donkeys and other magical things that are recorded in an ancient book written by primitive men with limited knowledge, I would put them in the same category as other myths.

Donb123 · 12-31-2011, 02:25 PM

(12-31-2011 01:16 PM)FmrMarine Wrote: I doubt you have any "dastardly ways." You are probably a pretty decent human being and you don't need god to be good to your

Of course you have to think that. If you owned up to how wicked sin is then you'd have a guilt problem.

Quote:I would submit that there is a good chance the world would be a better place if everyone realized this is the only life we get. We get our 75 - 80 years, and that's it. It makes all of the other nonsense trivial. As far as talking snakes, talking donkeys and other magical

Since you're making a hypothesis I'll make a counter one. I believe that if all I had was 80 years on terra firma and then there was nothing then I really don't have any reason to do anything other than I want. At least Satanists (of the Anton Laveye) variety get it right. "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". If you're going to be a humanist be a man and do it right. Get whatever you want, screw what other people think and feel cause it doesn't matter. I mean you are a happenstance random mutation of biological material and one day there's nothing so why not make maximum pleasure and enjoyment your chief goal? This is a serious question by the way. I cannot think of one single logical reason not to live that way as an atheist.

FmrMarine · 12-31-2011, 04:01 PM

(12-31-2011 02:25 PM)Donb123 Wrote:
(12-31-2011 01:16 PM)FmrMarine Wrote: I doubt you have any "dastardly ways." You are probably a pretty decent human being and you don't need god to be good to your

Of course you have to think that. If you owned up to how wicked sin is then you'd have a guilt problem.

Quote:I would submit that there is a good chance the world would be a better place if everyone realized this is the only life we get. We get our 75 - 80 years, and that's it. It makes all of the other nonsense trivial. As far as talking snakes, talking donkeys and other magical

Since you're making a hypothesis I'll make a counter one. I believe that if all I had was 80 years on terra firma and then there was nothing then I really don't have any reason to do anything other than I want. At least Satanists (of the Anton Laveye) variety get it right. "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". If you're going to be a humanist be a man and do it right. Get whatever you want, screw what other people think and feel cause it doesn't matter. I mean you are a happenstance random mutation of biological material and one day there's nothing so why not make maximum pleasure and enjoyment your chief goal? This is a serious question by the way. I cannot think of one single logical reason not to live that way as an atheist.

Yes. I think enjoyment of life is a great pursuit. You and I agree here. Treating others as you want to be treated is not particularly biblical. It's a philosophy of many people of many creeds. I think it is natural. Don't kill other people bacause you don't want someone to kill you. Don't steal other people's shit because you don't want them to steal your shit. 'Sin' is not necessarily wicked either. Running a red light is sin in god's eyes, but it's not wicked to me. Premarital sex is sin in god's eyes, but it's not wicked to me. Smoking weed is sin in god's eyes, but it's not wicked to me. I know plenty of people who have engaged in premarital sex, some weed occassionally, enjoy good whiskey, etc. who some of the most decent, generous, kind people you would ever meet. And they do it without god and without guilt.

Monipenny · 12-31-2011, 06:07 PM

(12-31-2011 04:01 PM)FmrMarine Wrote:
(12-31-2011 02:25 PM)Donb123 Wrote: Of course you have to think that. If you owned up to how wicked sin is then you'd have a guilt problem.

Since you're making a hypothesis I'll make a counter one. I believe that if all I had was 80 years on terra firma and then there was nothing then I really don't have any reason to do anything other than I want. At least Satanists (of the Anton Laveye) variety get it right. "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". If you're going to be a humanist be a man and do it right. Get whatever you want, screw what other people think and feel cause it doesn't matter. I mean you are a happenstance random mutation of biological material and one day there's nothing so why not make maximum pleasure and enjoyment your chief goal? This is a serious question by the way. I cannot think of one single logical reason not to live that way as an atheist.

Yes. I think enjoyment of life is a great pursuit. You and I agree here. Treating others as you want to be treated is not particularly biblical. It's a philosophy of many people of many creeds. I think it is natural. Don't kill other people bacause you don't want someone to kill you. Don't steal other people's shit because you don't want them to steal your shit. 'Sin' is not necessarily wicked either. Running a red light is sin in god's eyes, but it's not wicked to me. Premarital sex is sin in god's eyes, but it's not wicked to me. Smoking weed is sin in god's eyes, but it's not wicked to me. I know plenty of people who have engaged in premarital sex, some weed occassionally, enjoy good whiskey, etc. who some of the most decent, generous, kind people you would ever meet. And they do it without god and without guilt.

We can see how great religion works to help people avoid sin. *snarky Dodgy

Donb123 · 12-31-2011, 06:43 PM

(12-31-2011 04:01 PM)FmrMarine Wrote: Yes. I think enjoyment of life is a great pursuit. You and I agree here. Treating others as you want to be treated is not particularly biblical. It's a philosophy of many people of many creeds. I think it is natural. Don't kill other people bacause you don't want someone to kill you. Don't steal other people's shit because you don't want them to steal your shit.

Okay, but why? F' em. Get yours.

Donb123 · 12-31-2011, 06:43 PM

(12-31-2011 06:07 PM)Monipenny Wrote: We can see how great religion works to help people avoid sin. *snarky

Why would you be snarky about something nobody said?

Ricardo · 01-02-2012, 10:36 AM

"Smoking weed is sin in god's eyes,"

Where do you get that from? (I know, this is potentially a thread de-railer.)

Back on topic:
Many of us come from the camp that espoused: "If you do not follow my interpretation of the KJV1611 you are going to Hell."
So each step away from that has been taken with trepidation.

I guess the consensus of those who have felt led to participate in this thread is that paraphrasing John 14:6: NOBODY comes to the Father unless they believe in a virgin birth.

How is it that Paul, by far the best apologist for Christ, never brought up the issue of his virginal birth? How could he possibly convert so many, plant so many churches?

All I'm saying is that belief in the virgin birth is NOT essential. Not fundamental.

FmrMarine · 01-02-2012, 10:42 AM

(01-02-2012 10:36 AM)Ricardo Wrote: "Smoking weed is sin in god's eyes,"

Where do you get that from? (I know, this is potentially a thread de-railer.)

Back on topic:
Many of us come from the camp that espoused: "If you do not follow my interpretation of the KJV1611 you are going to Hell."
So each step away from that has been taken with trepidation.

I guess the consensus of those who have felt led to participate in this thread is that paraphrasing John 14:6: NOBODY comes to the Father unless they believe in a virgin birth.

How is it that Paul, by far the best apologist for Christ, never brought up the issue of his virginal birth? How could he possibly convert so many, plant so many churches?

All I'm saying is that belief in the virgin birth is NOT essential. Not fundamental.

Since you are ok with discounting the virgin birth, why not dismiss the feeding of the 5000 and/or the resurrection? They are both as unlikely as they are supernatural events. What's left that one can't find in many other religions?

Donb123 · 01-02-2012, 11:00 AM

(01-02-2012 10:42 AM)FmrMarine Wrote: Since you are ok with discounting the virgin birth, why not dismiss the feeding of the 5000 and/or the resurrection? They are both as unlikely as they are supernatural events. What's left that one can't find in many other religions?

Thread derailing..

Yeah, smoking weed isn't a sin in God's eyes, imho.

And for the rest of what you just said, Ricardo simply hasn't gotten to that part yet.

Back on the rails..

Jesus, being fully God and fully man, was not a mere man. This is why the Virgin Birth is important. He was not a man possessed by God like some demon, nor was he a Spirit impersonating a man. The problem of sin and separation from God was a human problem and as a perfect human God resolved the problem of perfectly fulfilling the law, being an atonement, and being victorious over death.

**myotch** · 01-02-2012, 07:22 PM

I think weed smoking is a sin in God's eyes if it is illegal where you are smoking it. If it is legal where you are smoking it, is it being used with some moderation, or is one in the habit of using it (addiction, crutch, etc.). If it is being used in moderation, and it's not a crutch or an addiction, then does it negatively affect other parts of one's life?

I don't see anything particularly Biblical throughout this little flowchart, but it helps keep me grounded.

WHY I WOULDN'T SMOKE POT WHILE IT IS ILLEGAL - Organized crime and gangs are involved in the growing and distribution. I could not in good conscience fund mafia and criminal activity, especially in a trade that tends to get violent. I would not increase demand by even taking a free "sample". If, for some reason, I woke up tomorrow and wanted a joint, I'd be asking so many questions of the supplier or dealer that they would have to think I was a narc.