I called Chuck Phelps.

[Don]

This hyper sanctimonious approach to redeeming Chuck Phelps is bogus. I'm sure in a private phone call, one's ear would get all sticky from all the honey that his one-on-one empathetic conversation would produce. But, according to his own actions in public, this is no longer a matter where one can go to him one on one. This has nothing to do with Matthew 18, this is damage control in pious wrapping paper.
You called Chucky? Great, more power to ya. I would have never known of Chuck and what happened if it was not a public issue, so like it or not that is where Chuck has to deal with it. So far his humility in the matter has been deafeningly silent.

[Darrell]

Quote:Tina, if you see this, Chuck Phelps is open to meeting with you.

Don't do it.

This is a public thing that needs to be addressed in public. Trying to put this behind closed doors now can only give the upper hand to Chuck & co. to spin the story and continue spreading lies and distortions.

If Chuck wants to apologize then there is NOTHING stopping him. He can write an open letter any time he wants to. He can take down his website any time he wants to. He can resign from the board of BJU anytime he wants to. He can step down as pastor any time he wants to.

Trying to put the onus back on Tina to meet with him is an act of cowardice and manipulation. This is not true repentance.

[Ricardo]

I just read Chuck Phelps' Website.

In summary: "There were allegations made without any legal merit."

He is still following legal advice rather than God's advice.

[Don]

For Tina to meet with Chuck in private would be an epic PR coup for Chucky. The appearance of that would be, Tina was coming back to Chuck in submission to his authority. Chuck has no authority in this matter any longer. If he were an honorable man he would humble himself and publically ask for her forgiveness. Ask Trinity Church to forgive him for how he failed them as well.

[Darrell]

Think about two kids on the playground. The first kid punches the second and steals his lunch money.

The teacher demands that the offending child apologize and in response the bully says "Well, I'll only say I'm sorry if he'll come over here and ask me to."

Who in their right mind would say that's acceptable? Yet this is apparently what Chuck is demanding. It's just ridiculous.

[Sharon]

it's bogus that Tina--who was a victim of crime and sin--needs to meet Chuck in order for him to apologize. If he feels that he needs to apologize, then he needs to initiate contact, not get the word out that he's "open to meeting with her."

"Oh, I did things wrong, yes. If Tina would o-o-o-only meet with me so I can apologize for it. . .Oh, she lives on the other side of the country and chooses not to look me in my piggy eyes? Well, that's on her, then. I did everything I could to make it right."

My kids know how to apologize better than this guy.

I also understand how actually talking to the man has made you feel a little different. It's harder to be outraged at a man who sounds so sincere--he may be sincere. But he needs to go ask a first grader how to apologize and stop weaseling around.

[pastor's wife]

I wish Phelps could just admit that he cared more for Willis and his family than for Tina; just confess and repent: "I didn't love Tina like I should. I cared more about looking good than dealing with the complications presented by Tina's situation."

It's OK to be broken, to be humble, to admit failure, to ask forgiveness. He needs to let his walls fall down as the Tenth Avenue North song says:

So you thought you had to keep this up
All the work that you do
So we think that you're good
And you can't believe it's not enough
All the walls you built up
Are just glass on the outside

So let 'em fall down
There's freedom waiting in the sound
When you let your walls fall to the ground
We're here now

This is where the healing begins, oh
This is where the healing starts
When you come to where you're broken within
The light meets the dark
The light meets the dark

Afraid to let your secrets out
Everything that you hide
Can come crashing through the door now
But too scared to face all your fear
So you hide but you find
That the shame won't disappear

So let it fall down
There's freedom waiting in the sound
When you let your walls fall to the ground
We're here now
We're here now, oh

This is where the healing begins, oh
This is where the healing starts
When you come to where you're broken within
The light meets the dark
The light meets the dark

Sparks will fly as grace collides
With the dark inside of us
So please don't fight
This coming light
Let this blood come cover us
His blood can cover us

This is where the healing begins, oh
This is where the healing starts
When you come to where you're broken within
The light meets the dark
The light meets the dark

[RJW]

I just have to wonder if C. Phelps would have responded the same way if it were his wife or daughter that were raped?

[elfdream]

Tina is under no obligation to meet with anyone. She has earned the right to move on past all this.

[P D]

(11-22-2011 08:34 AM)captain_solo Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 06:25 PM)P D Wrote:  I asked Tina Anderson if either Chuck Phelps or Matt Olson had contacted her. She stated that they hadn't. Tina stated that she would like to hear from them to bring about closure. These are Tina's words.

So what does closure and reconciliation mean now to Tina? Give her a call and post her reply here.

Tina, if you see this, Chuck Phelps is open to meeting with you.

Blessings.

Are you also going to stop your personal crusade against Matt Olson? I mean if Chuck did the best he could with a bad situation, then I guess Matt was just doing the same?

I only ask this because this is the only issue you have written about here, and in fact you have focused on Olson more than Phelps, so...how about it, does Matt deserve to be treated like a person too and considered as perhaps worthy of an objective review instead of being called to step down even though he could have made an assumption, given the reputation in the network of a man like Phelps, that he was doing the right thing? I'm just asking.

Chuck Phelps is a master manipulator, he is a pathological liar, and he is an arrogant asshole - I know what I am talking about, and it has nothing to do with this case, or with Trinity. If he really feels what you described you felt from him, then his website would not be what it is, nor would his directly attributable quotes be so heinous.

I don't need to call Chuck, certainly not to ask questions, his lawyers have posted enough of his answers for me to understand where he stands. He has lied, he supported the lies of Ernie, and of Tina's mom, and he is continuing to say anything to rehab his image among his chosen group of fellows. BJU "called" Chuck Phelps and asked him all these questions and called that an investigation. His credibility is damaged enough just by the whole situation surrounding his notes being introduced at trial (which forced him to edit his website - since apparently his lawyers real argument was not confidentiality, but that Chuck should be able to release only the details of his notes on his website that made him look good)

He claimed on the 20/20 show, to others directly, and on his website that it was a "consensual dating relationship" - agrees he didn't call it rape to the police, and yet wants to take credit for helping Tina get justice? Is glad she got justice? Why, because he isn't at Trinity any more so he doesn't care if they lose Ernie's tithing any more? Plus he's clearly pissed that the current pastor handed over his notes to the cops? Please, I don't listen to people, no matter how sincere they come across in person who have demonstrated time and time again how completely unable to demonstrate wisdom, discernment, humility, and honesty, both in public and personally, and I would just say that BJU has chosen to take his word for everything, which is not an investigation, its just the good ol' boys, making noise.

Actually, based on my phone call with Chuck, I think Matt Olson is as culpable as I though that he was. Chuck called the police and stated to me that they have a record of his call. If Chuck is telling the truth, he called the police and social services.

Matt Olson, on the other hand, did not call the police or social services in Colorado. Chuck Phelps stated to me that he did not tell Matt Olson the details of Tina's condition other than in vague terms - that she was pregnant by an adult. Therefore, Matt had an obligation when counseling Tina, to report what he discovered - an underage pregnancy at the hands of a 38 year old man.

He should have called the police in Colorado.

You also don't seem to understand what I wrote. Call Chuck Phelps reminded me that we are dealing with a human being. In other words, the call humanized him. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

As a previous poster stated, his actions are the only thing we can judge. We can't judge his motives and intentions because we really can't know them.

The results of his actions are the following:

1.) A 15 year old apologized in his church for getting pregnant without the details of the crime being revealed (a rape by a 38 year old man).

2.) A 38 year old man confessed to being unfaithful to his wife resulting in love and forgiveness by the church family.

3.) A 15 year old was transferred to Colorado resulting in the police investigation coming to an end.

4.) The removal of Tina to Colorado resulted in a 38 year old rapist being allowed to remain in his church for over ten years.

These actions are deeply disturbing. Chuck needs to apologize to Tina for these actions.