I called Chuck Phelps.

[P D]

(11-21-2011 06:16 PM)beth Wrote:  Ok, so he knows he made mistakes/missteps...whatever when he dealt with the situation years ago. What's stopping him now from manning up and publicly apologizing to Tina? He made her apologize when she wasn't wrong, why cant he apologize when he knows he's wrong.

I asked him that question. I think he would like to. We discussed how he could do that without looking defensive. In reality, is there anything he can do publicly that wouldn't be reviled?

Give him a call. Ask him that question and post your response here.

[P D]

(11-21-2011 06:17 PM)tiarali Wrote:  And what exactly does closure and reconciliation mean? He says sorry privately, everyone rejoices over how he's such a wonderful man really, and now they have 'proof', and he continues on with his lovely life as though he'd never done anything wrong?

He destroyed a life, and is merely saying/doing what he needs to to protect the quality of his own. That's all. If he was genuinely repentant, he would have resigned by now.

I asked Tina Anderson if either Chuck Phelps or Matt Olson had contacted her. She stated that they hadn't. Tina stated that she would like to hear from them to bring about closure. These are Tina's words.

So what does closure and reconciliation mean now to Tina? Give her a call and post her reply here.

Tina, if you see this, Chuck Phelps is open to meeting with you.

Blessings.

[Tony Mel]

"With great sorrow, I regret this, because the press and the newspapers have called me anything but an honorable man! That is the case here! The case is that they have blamed me. They have spun me as a rapist just because I asked a lying girl some questions! I regret that." (Chuck Phelps)

I've never heard anyone call themselves "honorable." Usually other people say that about you...

[P D]

(11-21-2011 06:25 PM)Tony Mel Wrote:  "With great sorrow, I regret this, because the press and the newspapers have called me anything but an honorable man! That is the case here! The case is that they have blamed me. They have spun me as a rapist just because I asked a lying girl some questions! I regret that." (Chuck Phelps)

I've never heard anyone call themselves "honorable." Usually other people say that about you...

I asked him specifically about this quote. He stated that the "notes" from people in the courtroom are inaccurate. He stated that he did not state what is quoted above.

When the court transcripts are available, we will see. Because if this is a true reproduction of his words, they are reprehensible.

But if he was stating that Tina wasn't always truthful in sharing what happened to her, for whatever reason, then this might be what he was getting at. Did he say "lying girl"? We will find out when the transcripts come out.

But please, call him and ask him about this quote, because I would like to get another person's evaluation of his response.

[Away-From-The-Umbrella]

[Prosecuting Attorney] Wayne: Ok, let me give you a hypothetical. Let’s say that a 14-year-old girl who goes to your school gets kidnapped by a guy who rapes her then beats her up and leaves her out in the woods. She comes to you and tells she is pregnant. Would you expel her from your school?
[BJU Board Member and Pastor Chuck] Phelps: It would depend on the situation. I don’t know.
(After Phelps said this, the jury and many of the people in the courtroom shook their heads or stared at him in shock.)


I suppose the above conversation never happened either....

I have no interest in Phelps' attempts at personal PR, I have interest in his actions. As the old adage says, actions speak louder than words.

If he is so sorry and repentant, he should take action. Stop worrying about his own sorry self (He always seems to cast himself as victim) and for once care about Tina. Apologize publicly for calling her a liar and for saying over and over that she was in a consensual relationship when he knew darn well she was raped. He should publicly apologize for making a rape victim go up in front of the church and be disciplined, for not pursuing justice, for sending her to live with strangers, for quietly harboring a known rapist in his church and endangering other young ladies; for trying to keep very pertinent info in a child rape case away from jurors.

If Chuck Phelps had any integrity at all he would have to acknowledge that his behavior has disqualified him from the pastorate, and he would resign the pastorate as well as the board at BJU.

I am not impressed by anything Phelps has to say. It is his actions that matter.

[Don]

Give Chucky a call and all will be revealed and made right?

Sorry, the Personal approach went out the window when Chucky made it a public issue by bringing it before the church in the manner which he did. Anything from that point forward must be done in public. He cannot hide behind the "protecting the cause of Christ" defense any longer. What he did by making the public outing of a rape into two separate incidents is reprehensible. So it doesn't matter that it looks like he is being defensive. Too bad, he called the tune he pays the fiddler, publically.

It's time for him to stand and apologize for his lying and his part in carrying out a coverup and how his actions affected a rape victim. Nothing less is required of an "honorable" man.

[captain_solo]

(11-21-2011 06:25 PM)P D Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 06:17 PM)tiarali Wrote:  And what exactly does closure and reconciliation mean? He says sorry privately, everyone rejoices over how he's such a wonderful man really, and now they have 'proof', and he continues on with his lovely life as though he'd never done anything wrong?

He destroyed a life, and is merely saying/doing what he needs to to protect the quality of his own. That's all. If he was genuinely repentant, he would have resigned by now.

I asked Tina Anderson if either Chuck Phelps or Matt Olson had contacted her. She stated that they hadn't. Tina stated that she would like to hear from them to bring about closure. These are Tina's words.

So what does closure and reconciliation mean now to Tina? Give her a call and post her reply here.

Tina, if you see this, Chuck Phelps is open to meeting with you.

Blessings.

Are you also going to stop your personal crusade against Matt Olson? I mean if Chuck did the best he could with a bad situation, then I guess Matt was just doing the same?

I only ask this because this is the only issue you have written about here, and in fact you have focused on Olson more than Phelps, so...how about it, does Matt deserve to be treated like a person too and considered as perhaps worthy of an objective review instead of being called to step down even though he could have made an assumption, given the reputation in the network of a man like Phelps, that he was doing the right thing? I'm just asking.

Chuck Phelps is a master manipulator, he is a pathological liar, and he is an arrogant asshole - I know what I am talking about, and it has nothing to do with this case, or with Trinity. If he really feels what you described you felt from him, then his website would not be what it is, nor would his directly attributable quotes be so heinous.

I don't need to call Chuck, certainly not to ask questions, his lawyers have posted enough of his answers for me to understand where he stands. He has lied, he supported the lies of Ernie, and of Tina's mom, and he is continuing to say anything to rehab his image among his chosen group of fellows. BJU "called" Chuck Phelps and asked him all these questions and called that an investigation. His credibility is damaged enough just by the whole situation surrounding his notes being introduced at trial (which forced him to edit his website - since apparently his lawyers real argument was not confidentiality, but that Chuck should be able to release only the details of his notes on his website that made him look good)

He claimed on the 20/20 show, to others directly, and on his website that it was a "consensual dating relationship" - agrees he didn't call it rape to the police, and yet wants to take credit for helping Tina get justice? Is glad she got justice? Why, because he isn't at Trinity any more so he doesn't care if they lose Ernie's tithing any more? Plus he's clearly pissed that the current pastor handed over his notes to the cops? Please, I don't listen to people, no matter how sincere they come across in person who have demonstrated time and time again how completely unable to demonstrate wisdom, discernment, humility, and honesty, both in public and personally, and I would just say that BJU has chosen to take his word for everything, which is not an investigation, its just the good ol' boys, making noise.

[Darrell]

He has made public statements. He's been on the stand in a court of law. He's been faced with multiple witnesses who have recounted the events that surrounded Tina's "church discipline."

I really have no need to talk to him in person. If he wants to set the matter straight he has an entire website dedicated to doing so which he can make use of.

[Tony Mel]

No need to talk to him in person because all of this was done in public. He should, at least, graciously resign from the Board.

True repentance would require him to change his website's contents, correct Dr. Bob III (who claims he had done nothing wrong), apologize to Tina publicly, and step down. Period.

[MKxcomm]

Actions speak louder than words. What if Chuck really felt like he was doing everything in the most righteous way possible? Maybe he did. But his errant beliefs led him to hang-out-to-dry the most vulnerable person in his church. His motives failed the test of the Bible. His tiny violin remorse for how things happened doesn't do anything for me. .Why are we so concerned with what he looks like (referring to him looking defensive)? His goal needs to be healing for his VICTIM. Until that happens, however he looks to anyone is of no concern. He IS a master manipulator. WHEN IT COUNTED, he failed to protect Tina. WHEN IT COUNTED he took the stand and was a smug sonofabitch. He can sound sad and even repentant now, but his concern is STILL not for Tina. His concern is for what people think of him and BJU. Having people call him is just another bluff. He humiliated Tina publicly and tried to ruin her reputation as a loose girl.

His job (If he is truly repentant) is to use every means necessary to undo the wrong he has caused.

NOT to mope around in his office admitting to small sins to distract from his utter failure as a man and a pastor. And NOT to pretend he'd like to apologize to Tina when he could do so in hundreds of ways without contacting her and re-traumatizing her. (She was separated from her infant daughter at 16 because of him. You think she wants to talk to this guy?)