What can Northland and BJU learn from Penn State?

[FmrMarine]

Penn St. grad asst. Mike McQueary caught Sandusky in the act of raping a child. McQueary said he locked eyes with both Sandusky and the victim and did nothing. McQueary is 6'3" 220+lbs and did not even try to help the little boy. He is a coward of the highest order.

[P D]

(11-10-2011 05:21 PM)FmrMarine Wrote:  Penn St. grad asst. Mike McQueary caught Sandusky in the act of raping a child. McQueary said he locked eyes with both Sandusky and the victim and did nothing. McQueary is 6'3" 220+lbs and did not even try to help the little boy. He is a coward of the highest order.

Just like Phelps is a coward when he passed off a rape as a covert dating relationship.

How sick can Phelps and Olson be for blaming a rape victim for getting pregnant?

McQueary did nothing to stop a rape in process.
Phelps and Olson can't admit that a rape took place.

These are sick people.

[captain_solo]

(11-10-2011 04:39 PM)P D Wrote:  

(11-10-2011 04:27 PM)captain_solo Wrote:  This case is a prime example of why I have serious issues with the "IFB" and "fundamentalism" focus of some of these supposed victim support groups

This is a huge problem in our society, it spans socioeconomic and religious lines, it is not a IFB problem or a fundamentalism problem. In fact I disagree with the OP that Northland and BJU can learn absolutely from Penn State - in fact, what is the common denominator here is the support of an institution over a victim. It happens over and over and over again. It is human nature, its evidence of depravity, however you want to characterize it, it happens, it has happened, it will happen again.

Individual responsibility is the only fix for this type of response, many people had opportunities to deal with the truth when it was brought to them, and they didn't. That is the tragedy.

As for holding Penn State up as an example to Northland, BJU, or anyone else. We don't yet know how bad the cover up was - in fact the case just keeps getting worse and the cover up keeps getting broader including the police and the prosecutors office. If the cover up ends up including the 2005 murder of a DA in order to end an investigation, I think it would be best to wait and see how deep the rabbit hole goes before acting like Penn State and the people who waited to drop the other shoe until JoePa beat the record should be held up as the example of how to handle something like this. Certainly its too early to be doing that, it may just end up making the Phelps/Northland/BJU stuff look like amateur hour.

Joe Pa didn't do what he was morally obligated to do, according to the media. The administration did nothing. They did not protect or defend the victims of sex crimes.

This is exactly what Phelps and Olson did - failed to defend and protect a victim of sex crimes.

What NBBC and BJU can learn from Penn State is to remove persons of authority who fail to protect victims of sex crimes. The trustee board of Penn State is doing this. The trustee boards of NIU and BJU are not.

Fundamentalists never learn. They are out of touch with reality. They preen, act righteous, put on a good image, but they refuse to repent, confess, and acknowledge their sin.

NIU and BJU can learn a lot from the board of trustees of Penn State.

The authorities in this case, including the board, looked the other way until they were forced not to by public opinion. I wouldn't hold them up yet as the bastions of moral fortitude just yet. They are not acting with the guidance of some shining moral compass, but in defense of their public relations and their sense of shame at having the lack of character in everyone involved revealed. When regular folks realize that NCAA football is a business with a constituency, just like BJU, Northland, and most other institutions, they would realize that protecting the institution and the public perception that brings in the money is what these things are aways about. Joe Pa has been sold for years by Penn State and the industry of sports as the guy with the moral authority and above reproach, the parallel to the deification of men in the IFB does not escape me, and believe me I am not trying to lessen the horror at the events within fundamentalism. Just like in the Catholic church scandals, the fact that IFBs hold themselves up as standing for holy living and praise each other for their moral high horse means they should be judged more harshly when they don't measure up, Joe Pa for the same reason. He may have fulfilled his legal obligations (which arguably Phelps did as well as far as anyone can prove), the authorities in both cases dropped the ball also, and while claiming to be the cock of the walk, they were hiding the offenses of the most despicable and depraived individuals around. Once again, I am not defending the scandalous behavior in IFB or religious circles in general, but I am telling you this response by Penn State is as bad or worse - its not an example of how to handle this. At this point they have been forced to "handle" it, so everything they do is now at the behest of public scrutiny so I wouldn't chalk it up to character, morality, or any desire to do the right thing, but doing whatever it takes to make it go away. That much has already been demonstrated.

[Tiarali]

Alright, so maybe the idea could change from what the IFB can learn from the PSU to what we can learn from cases like the PSU. And that seems to be that organisations will not act in the best interest of victims until there is a public outcry over the events that have transpired.

[Tiarali]

Quote:Penn St. grad asst. Mike McQueary caught Sandusky in the act of raping a child. McQueary said he locked eyes with both Sandusky and the victim and did nothing. McQueary is 6'3" 220+lbs and did not even try to help the little boy. He is a coward of the highest order.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Quote:I do have to agree that this seems to happen all over, spanning all religions, all people groups, all types of institutions. It's sad and a shame, and one of the reason that child abuse happens. People have a good chance of not getting caught. . .

People get caught. But then nothing is done. This makes them bolder and they continue and get worse.

[captain_solo]

(11-10-2011 06:10 PM)P D Wrote:  

(11-10-2011 05:21 PM)FmrMarine Wrote:  Penn St. grad asst. Mike McQueary caught Sandusky in the act of raping a child. McQueary said he locked eyes with both Sandusky and the victim and did nothing. McQueary is 6'3" 220+lbs and did not even try to help the little boy. He is a coward of the highest order.

Just like Phelps is a coward when he passed off a rape as a covert dating relationship.

How sick can Phelps and Olson be for blaming a rape victim for getting pregnant?

McQueary did nothing to stop a rape in process.
Phelps and Olson can't admit that a rape took place.

These are sick people.

The common factor here is the failure of supposedly moral men to protect those who couldn't protect themselves - the outrage of just about every normal human being who hears about the Penn State case demonstrates the fundamental nature of that duty - not to mention the fact that all of these men took on the responsibility of being a leader of others, especially children - in human terms as well as biblical ones in the case of these pastors that makes them even more culpable

[captain_solo]

(11-10-2011 06:32 PM)tiarali Wrote:  Alright, so maybe the idea could change from what the IFB can learn from the PSU to what we can learn from cases like the PSU. And that seems to be that organisations will not act in the best interest of victims until there is a public outcry over the events that have transpired.

Exactly

[P D]

Do we know that the trustees knew about these incidents for years and did nothing?

When the allegations became public, the board of trustees acted. There is no evidence that the board knew of anything before the allegations went public.

In any event, whatever the reasons for the action of the trustees of Penn State, they have acted!

Unlike the boards at BJU and NIU. Shouldn't Christians do the right thing whether or not the spotlight is on them?

[P D]

Captain solo:

The truth of the matter is this: Penn State's board of trustees is taking action to clean house. There is no evidence that they knew of these allegations beforehand. To assume that they are acting only because the media is on them is unfounded conjecture on your part. They claim that they are outraged by what they have learned and I have no reason to not believe them.

This is in total contrast to the boards at NIU and BJU, both of which have refused to take action against Matt Olson and Chuck Phelps. So yes, What can Northland and BJU learn from Penn State is still the appropriate question to be asking.

[captain_solo]

(11-10-2011 06:46 PM)P D Wrote:  Captain solo:

The truth of the matter is this: Penn State's board of trustees is taking action to clean house. There is no evidence that they knew of these allegations beforehand. To assume that they are acting only because the media is on them is unfounded conjecture on your part. They claim that they are outraged by what they have learned and I have no reason to not believe them.

This is in total contrast to the boards at NIU and BJU, both of which have refused to take action against Matt Olson and Chuck Phelps. So yes, What can Northland and BJU learn from Penn State is still the appropriate question to be asking.

I certainly think the BJU/Phelps thing is unconscionable. I'm less convinced about the Olson/Northland thing, it would require knowledge of some things we just don't know about what he was told, etc. Certainly doesn't rise to the level of what we know about Phelps and his actions or lack thereof. There is another distinction too, the network in the IFB is a good ol boys network, its not formal. Penn State has some organizational structure that makes their approach to this even more troubling since there is no "autonomy" to fall back on as an excuse. Laughable it may be, but as a whitewash its not available to them like it is in the other cases.

As for Penn State, way to early to tell who knew what when, but the whole thing stinks to high heaven, and its still being covered up, so what else would a person be expected to think. There is inconsistent action and obfuscation, even by the board at this point, although they put on a good show yesterday. Could be legal reasons for their reticence, but too soon to assume they are as pure as the driven snow, thats my point. Holding them up as the example to shame NIU or BJU or Phelps at this point might just end up looking really bad. That was the reason for my caution. At this point all we know is that despicable behavior was covered up by at least some of the authorities involved.