Is it a sin to take communion if you have not been baptized by immersion in water?

[captain_solo]

I had a friend whose church was seriously local church only - in fact they refused a ministry position in a church while away at college because they were not willing to join a different church. Would not partake in communion anywhere but at their home church, etc. Went way beyond even closed communion - although thats what they called it.

As far as baptism is concerned, I have really changed my view on this, or rather I have adapted my response to the teaching that is mostly prevalent in the evangelical church. If indeed they want to hold a consistent position regarding Regenerate church membership, and believe its "believers baptism" then I don't encourage the baptism of children who have made professions of faith. So many kids don't know what they are doing, are just following or being coerced into a decision, that I don't equate it to the salvation of adults - all clear examples in Acts are adults - where they were saved and immediately baptized. There are many reasons to allow some time even for adults to process their decisions, understand the reasons why they should desire to be baptized other than "Pastor said I need to do it" - and with kids you have the added burden that it puts on them. If they realize later that they really did not accept Christ, the pressure of being thought of as baptized members taking communion in the church might cause them to have issues dealing with their heart in a truthful way. My children have both professed salvation, one of them is baptized, but it was several years later and she really had to work to convince me of the reasons she was choosing to go ahead, we have seen fruit in her life, previously she had dropped the subject when it came up and we let it, but once she persistently explained where she was at, we agreed. So while I am not convinced that there should be a huge gap between the two, I would urge caution in order to preserve the reality of believer's baptism instead of the largely unregenerate baptized membership of many churches I have been in. It can become just more external "evidence" of salvation on someone who has none.

[Jenni]

The church I'm attending now has open communion. It's the first time I've been at a church like that. Before, the pastor always made a big deal about the rules for taking communion and emphasized the "clean the sin out of your heart so you won't get sick or die" thing, so we'd have a long time in the service for people to get their hearts right first, and I've had several friends come up to me and confess sins so that our relationship would be right before we took communion (this was usually when I didn't even know something was wrong, so it was a bit awkward for me). I was always a bit hesitant with communion, like, what if there's some sin I'm forgetting about and then I'll DIE and that's wretched.

But we have open communion at my current church - all are welcome to partake. And, actually, we have both wine and grape juice as options in the little cups, and there's regular bread and some gluten-free crackers, too.

[bean]

Our message today was "Grace Alone." None of us are good enough on our own. Thanks be to God, for loving us all. The table is open to all.
Very meaningful service to me today.

[redbeardiam]

(10-30-2011 12:13 AM)notdrinkingthekoolaid Wrote:  Hey...my church is an Acts 29 network church. However our communion involves only some form of grape juice--because, well, there are minors being served. Baptism is by immersion though. Alcohol has been known to be consumed in small group.

Mine too! We use juice instead of wine for communion, because we meet in a public school.

[captain_solo]

(10-30-2011 11:46 AM)Donb123 Wrote:  

(10-30-2011 06:45 AM)captain_solo Wrote:  I had a friend whose church was seriously local church only - in fact they refused a ministry position in a church while away at college because they were not willing to join a different church. Would not partake in communion anywhere but at their home church, etc. Went way beyond even closed communion - although thats what they called it.

As far as baptism is concerned, I have really changed my view on this, or rather I have adapted my response to the teaching that is mostly prevalent in the evangelical church. If indeed they want to hold a consistent position regarding Regenerate church membership, and believe its "believers baptism" then I don't encourage the baptism of children who have made professions of faith. So many kids don't know what they are doing, are just following or being coerced into a decision, that I don't equate it to the salvation of adults - all clear examples in Acts are adults - where they were saved and immediately baptized. There are many reasons to allow some time even for adults to process their decisions, understand the reasons why they should desire to be baptized other than "Pastor said I need to do it" - and with kids you have the added burden that it puts on them. If they realize later that they really did not accept Christ, the pressure of being thought of as baptized members taking communion in the church might cause them to have issues dealing with their heart in a truthful way. My children have both professed salvation, one of them is baptized, but it was several years later and she really had to work to convince me of the reasons she was choosing to go ahead, we have seen fruit in her life, previously she had dropped the subject when it came up and we let it, but once she persistently explained where she was at, we agreed. So while I am not convinced that there should be a huge gap between the two, I would urge caution in order to preserve the reality of believer's baptism instead of the largely unregenerate baptized membership of many churches I have been in. It can become just more external "evidence" of salvation on someone who has none.

You've just made a great argument for infant baptism.

Or against it...

[senda wales]

(10-29-2011 08:35 PM)Tony Mel Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 02:57 PM)senda wales Wrote:  As such, I've never really regarded baptism as a terribly important commandment compared to "honor thy father and mother."

I have a problem with this because baptism, as opposed to other commandments, is always linked to salvation (eg. Acts 2:38, Col. 2:11-13).

I'm not saying it's right or theologically or scripturally sound that that was the point I walked away with. It's just that when I was a youth attending a fundy church, I was never pressured to get baptized or participate in communion compared with attending and serving in church. The sacraments became rituals to me, mere symbols/pictures of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. As a result, I never regarded either of the sacraments as terribly important; they seemed tangential to the greater work of getting saved and serving God (there were plenty of opportunities to serve in church as a youth even if you weren't a member).

It's a suspicion/prejudice that I developed while I was a fundy and continue to carry today, but it is also something that I had trouble reconciling as a fundy. When I would actually read the New Testament, especially the Gospels and Acts, I saw over and over that the salvation message was believe and be baptized. This was very troubling to me. I could understand why other denominations would interpret these passages to mean that baptism is a necessary component of the salvation process, or at least a very crucial commandment after salvation/belief. If that was so, then perhaps my church was wrong (scary to imagine at the time) or perhaps I wasn't really saved when I thought I was or perhaps I was in sin the whole time I was a youth and all of my service for God as a youth had been invalidated because I hadn't been baptized...

Anyways, in any case, I'm still not fond of making a big deal over the sacraments. Practices vary from church to church, denomination to denomination, and I have trouble telling others they're in sin or not in sin based on their interpretation of salvation, baptism, and communion.

[Tooktheredpill]

ISTM, that the "say a prayer" approach to conversion popular among Fundies (and most Evangelicals) is reflective of our Western, individualistic culture. Baptism was generally a public event and signified entrance into the community of Christ followers. The "say a prayer" approach is generally much more private and individualistic.

Also, I think baptism demonstrates that a convert is entering into the story of Jesus whereas the "say a prayer" approach emphasizes personal benefits rather than the whole story/gospel of Jesus.