Book Review: Predestined For Hell? No!

[greg]

(11-20-2011 06:17 PM)Don Wrote:  Greg,
You did it again. Proof texting out of context.
John Chapter 5.
Where does the passage begin? At the Pool of Bethesda where there were a multitude of people needing to be healed. Jesus chose to heal this particular individual. Why didn't he heal everyone there? This one was not healed according to his faith but Jesus chose to heal him. There is no recorded account that Jesus healed anyone else at this time. So, was it unfair that Jesus didn't just heal them all? Or way it by Grace and Mercy that this one was healed?

Now the rest of the chapter goes into Jesus' witness and testimony as to who he is and his authority to heal, especially on the sabbath.

Look at verses 20-23 what does it say? In these verses we see that God is sovereign in giving life to whom he wills, "For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will."
(hummm we're a ways from Paul and Romans 9, and Jesus himself is declaring his role in life giving salvation.)

Your proof text falls in context of verses 37-44. Jesus is pointing out their hypocrisy. The point is that they claim to follow the scriptures and abide by the law but they do not believe in either the law or the one who gave them the law. He is pointing out that if they really knew the scriptures and the law they profess to follow, then they cound not help but see the Messiah and would readily accept him. Instead they are holding on to their pride and the law. We know that the law cannot save anyone, yet that is precisely what the audience Jesus was talking to claimed to be doing.

The verses you use here for proof texting are not very good anchors for one's soteriology.

Friend if anyone here is proof-texting it is you. I set up the scenario completely correctly, maybe I should have gone back to Bethlehem and Christ's birth, or better yet to Isaiah's prophecies about Jesus' birth, or still better, in the beginning when the world was void and darkness was across the expanses.

No offense, seriously, I think you care about your theology and want to be correct. But it is so very obvious that you have followed men as you look at the scripture. I am now going to point out some very specific things that demonstrate that you have not considered this passage or spent really any time on it at all, methinks you grabbed the nearest calvinistic commentary and relayed whatever some man said.

#1 - You state there were a number of people needing to be healed. Really, I can't find them in my translation (NIV) the NIV says v-3 "Here a great number of disabled people used to lie" This indicates to me that sick folk regularly visited this place but not that they were necessarily there at the time this passage records. I checked several other translations, several of which read like the NIV. Who is proof-texting?

#2 - You ask, why didn't He heal everyone there? Of course I would ask you right back, How do you know that He didn't? There is nothing to indicate that anyone else was even there at this time, and there is no indication that God refused to heal anyone! Who is proof-texting?

#3 -You said this man was not healed according to his faith. Really, where did you find out that information? The bible is silent regarding this man's faith. We may speculate about his faith, but I don't recommend it, that's how you end up with man-made theology like calvinism! Who is proof-texting?

#4 - None of this has anything to do at all with what we are discussing. I just saw so many holes and a near complete misunderstanding of the passage, I thought I would point them out to you.

v-21 "even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it." Even to them that believe on His name, For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord, Salvation is the power of God to all who believe, he died not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world, he would that all men be saved.

Oh my, on and on and on, what a bankrupt theology to dismiss such truths. Let me try an analogy. I live in the country, a good chainsaw is a real handy tool around here. For Christmas this year I have already purchased chainsaws for every single man over 18 years. Beautiful brand new, in the box, Stihl chainsaws with 20" bars. Now these are bought and paid for, I bought one for every man (whosever) all one has to do is walk past my trailer, parked downtown and say I'm here for my chainsaw, and I hand them the saw, I'm giving them away, they were purchased for each man in town. Well there are a couple of knuckleheads that say I don't believe that, surely no one is going to be giving away new saws!!!They don't come and claim their saws, each of them had a saw, specifically for them, bought and paid for, they just didn't show up to collect them. It was their gift, but what did they fail to do? They failed to "ACCEPT" their gift.

God has purchased yours and mine and every single person on this planets' salvation. It is theirs, (salvation is the gift of God) the work, the price, the penalty all paid for, paid in full on that rugged cross of Calvary. When Jesus said it is finished, it really was, there remains nothing for any of us to do but merely accept this once in a lifetime gift.

Btw, go ahead and read v-24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned." Greg raising hand, Uh, can I get in on this, am I included in that there whosever?

Don, I am really telling you the truth, really! Whoever, that means anybody and everybody in the greek! who hears the words of Jesus and just simply believes him who sent Jesus has eternal life, and the great news, the beautiful news is that they will not be condemned.

So you tell me.

Who is doing the proof-texting?