The Death Penalty

[Darrell]

Quote:NT Write: You can’t reconcile being pro-life on abortion and pro-death on the death penalty.

Sure you can.

[Tooktheredpill]

(09-22-2011 08:28 PM)Darrell Wrote:  

Quote:NT Write: You can’t reconcile being pro-life on abortion and pro-death on the death penalty.

Sure you can.

I think his next sentence clarifies what he meant: "Almost all the early Christian Fathers were opposed to the death penalty, even though it was of course standard practice across the ancient world."

In other words, if your reason for being pro-life is the teachings of the N.T. and the early church, you gotta be opposed to both execution and abortion.

[Darrell]

I'd really like to see his sources for his claim of "almost all." Perhaps a personal research project is in order.

[Darrell]

Here's a start:

Quote:Some of the early Church fathers argued against the death penalty, but the Church’s two greatest theologians, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, both wrote in favor of it [City of God 1.21;Summa theologica II-II, q. 64].

http://www.st-joseph-foundation.org/news...=2003/21-4

and it is only very recently that the Catholic Church has begun to take a negative approach to the death penalty as well

Quote:Pronouncements by the papal magisterium for centuries have affirmed the legitimacy of the death penalty. According to Williams, the first pope to teach in favor of capital punishment was Innocent I in 405. Citing the words of St. Paul, Innocent said, “It must be remembered that power was granted by God, and to avenge crime the sword was permitted; he who carries out this vengeance is God’s minister.” Williams cites an 866 letter by Pope Nicholas I to the opposite effect, but this letter seems to question the application of the death penalty rather than the principle itself.

Perhaps the most authoritative papal pronouncement in defense of capital punishment was the profession of faith that Pope Innocent III prescribed in 1208 for a group of Waldensians returning to the Church. This profession of faith included the following affirmation: “Concerning the secular power we declare that without mortal sin it is possible to exercise a judgment of blood as long as one proceeds to bring punishment not in hatred but in judgment, not incautiously but advisedly” [DS 795/425]. The 16 th century Catechism of the Council of Trent taught that the civil authority is the “legitimate avenger of crime,” and that, when it executes criminals, it acts not in defiance of the Fifth Commandment, but rather in obedience to it. More recently, Popes Leo XIII and Pius XII have affirmed the legitimacy of capital punishment.

ibid.

[bean]

Any doubt in my mind was totally erased Tuesday night.
I sat here and watched as the state of Georgia put to death a man who I do not believe committed the crime he was accused of.

Would anyone facing the death penalty at the last moment not own up to their crimes and apologize to the family? Troy Davis told the family how sorry he was their son/brother died..but it wasn't him. He maintained his innocence to the end. He prayed for those taking his life. Not the actions of man who is guilty and leaving this earth...

It is barbaric and state sanctioned murder.

It is what is done in developing and third world nations.

It is ironic because in a class I teach about American society and Civic participation, we are examining the three values that many Americans hold dear: Freedom, Equality, and Justice. And yet we have example after example of injustice...It makes me sad. It really does.

(09-22-2011 01:30 PM)Jenn Wrote:  I know the Bible is supportive of the death penalty, and that is why most protestant Christians support it.

But then again, the Bible, OT, encourages torture and other violence that we as a modern society would condemn as cruel and unusual.

Catholics are against the death penalty. I'm not sure why. Why are Catholics against it?

What would Jesus do?

An eye for an eye...?

[Darrell]

Quote:Would anyone facing the death penalty at the last moment not own up to their crimes and apologize to the family?

Yeah, it happens all the time:

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm

[bean]

Darrell..couple that with the fact that 7 witnesses recanted their stories, there was alleged police coercion of witnesses, there was no physical evidence, no dna, no gun...I don't know if the man did it or not, but to me that is enough doubt to say no.

[Darrell]

(09-23-2011 07:00 AM)bean Wrote:  Darrell..couple that with the fact that 7 witnesses recanted their stories, there was alleged police coercion of witnesses, there was no physical evidence, no dna, no gun...I don't know if the man did it or not, but to me that is enough doubt to say no.

I can't speak to his specific case. I really don't know the details.

I'm talking here about the death penalty in general as retributive justice and trying to look at the views on capital punishment through church history.

If a man was wrongfully executed then that is, of course, a gross miscarriage of justice.

[Tiarali]

I can't support the death penalty but only because there are times when people are wrongly executed.

It is disgusting that we live in an age where pedophiles (in my state) do not get jail for a first offence unless they have actually raped or killed a child.

Crimes such as murder, rape, and pedophilia deserve lifetime jail. That way if they can prove their innocence they can get out. But not one of them gave their victim a chance at a free life, so neither should they have it. At least then their victims might feel that the law, at least cares about them.

[Darrell]

Quote:I can't support the death penalty but only because there are times when people are wrongly executed.

As I said above, I do have a lot of respect for that position.