The BONUS altar call; for believers only.

[beensetfree]

Someone actually copies sermons for me as a supplement to attending weekly service and because listening to sermons is one of my hobbies. I'm assuming it's also so he knows I'm listening to something that they approve of since I listen to such a variety.
These sermons he gives me happen to be from a be a less "severe" brand of IFB known for their "sound doctrine" and work ethics not their craziness.
This famous Pastor will meander around texts and fuse it together with other verses and he'll tout grace and Christ's sufficiency and the Christian life and sort of blend it all. He doesn't really explain doctrine but likes to throw out catch-phrases and makes pleas for us to really understand. He says some good things but overall I'm generally wondering what just happened and amazed by how he decided to put it all together.

But it's the end of the service where you see where it's really headed, serious application time. First is the silent altar call for unbelievers a la hand raising. Then there is the BONUS altar call for believers and it goes something like this, "Now for all you believers. Every head bowed and every eye closed. If you've heard this message and realize in your heart, "LORD I'm not living for you like I should. I'm not loving you with my whole heart. Would you just slip up your hand so I can pray for you? If your commitment today is LORD, from this day forward I'm going to live totally for you by the power of your Spirit just lift your hand. Let's pray."
Based on the message there is some variation of this renewed commitment every week. You'd think if possible this one in particular would have sealed the deal for your Christian walk.

I can tell you one thing, it leaves me in utter despair to think about whether I'm loving God or serving Him sufficiently and it seems that it's setting a Christian up for failure and burnout to be left inward gazing. After hearing these messages I try to discern what to do; then I remember to thank my Saviour Jesus Christ and move on with my day.

But what would someone who hears this at the end of every sermon think? Please someone dissect where this goes horribly wrong. What's the theology behind it?

[beensetfree]

(09-20-2011 05:11 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  Pietism.

That's silly you must have missed the "by your Spirit" part. It's not pietism, it's faith that this commitment will really work so they can be holy like God wants. The sermon mentioned that you can only be justified by Jesus not by your works so this is just gratitude for being set free. Hmmm.... until that end part then it kind of sounds like bait and switch.

[Don]

Works Sanctification

and

A complete lack of understanding of the entire Book of Galatians.

It begins in the pulpit as a way of validating getting paid. One has to have something tangible and measurable to gage effectiveness and successful preaching.

This is also a form of control. There is a mind set that one has to attain some level of spiritual and sinless perfection in order for God to bless them. A high level of introspection produces a constant battle in the mind of the sheeple which is a good thing for the M-O-g since he can now induce guilt at will.

Then there is the experiential side of church attendance for the sheeple. The people need to "feel" that they have had some emotional or spiritual experience at church.
"Oh, you should have been with us Sunday morning, we felt the movement of god."
or
"God really moved in the service this morning."
or
"I felt the presence of God in this morning's service."

"God really spoke to my heart this morning."

This creates religious spiritual and emotional junkies. They have to have their fix. A good movement of god on Sunday will get them to Wednesday, so they can get a taste that will tide them over until Saturday moring visitation. Unless the don't go on visitation then they get really strung out and need another "special" fix come Sunday morning.

It's all about feelings, and experiences, and what it takes to make god real to them... and it can all be done without Christ. And a good M-O-g has mastered that ability.

[NotUnderLaw]

(09-20-2011 05:30 PM)beensetfree Wrote:  

(09-20-2011 05:11 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  Pietism.

That's silly you must have missed the "by your Spirit" part. It's not pietism, it's faith that this commitment will really work so they can be holy like God wants. The sermon mentioned that you can only be justified by Jesus not by your works so this is just gratitude for being set free. Hmmm.... until that end part then it kind of sounds like bait and switch.

But that is the problem. They ARE holy. Jesus had made them righteous. So why are they going around snivelling like they aren't, making commitments and promises that they can't keep for two reasons

i) ANY committment, whether done "by faith" or not, is relying on self to achieve it. You can't achieve something already done. The real faith would be believing that God has already made them holy, even if they don't feel it.

ii) You can't commit to do something that is already done. So they are denying what is done, and asking God to still do it. But it is already done. Anyone in Christ is Holy. You can't get more holy. And your walk will only reflect Christ once you start believing God's evaluation of you in Christ.

They aren't believing, but are faithless, in regards to what they have in Christ. No doubt they believe in His forgiveness, and I don't ever call into question anyone's salvation regardless of their lifestyle, but they are not believing who they are in Christ. They think it is still something they have to attain to.

P.S. Can you tell us who the preacher is?

[bean]

In my time in what I describe as a "Bible Believing" (their term, not mine) church, we had several pastors. The first didn't do this altar call. One we had for many years did. Frequently. Most of the time it was the hand raising method. He built up to the point where you weren't really sure where you stood and then felt like you better raise your hand. Eyes closed? Everyone knows even 7th grade class elections can't be done this way because someone is peeking. It aggravated my OCD and was a serious trigger. Eventually, when I started to learn about how OCD worked I pretty much shut down during this part of the sermon. It got to the point where I was really struggling week to week just to feel like I was "good enough." That was the beginning of the end, really..

[beensetfree]

(09-20-2011 06:09 PM)NotUnderLaw Wrote:  But that is the problem. They ARE holy. Jesus had made them righteous. So why are they going around snivelling like they aren't, making commitments and promises that they can't keep for two reasons

i) ANY committment, whether done "by faith" or not, is relying on self to achieve it. You can't achieve something already done. The real faith would be believing that God has already made them holy, even if they don't feel it.

ii) You can't commit to do something that is already done. So they are denying what is done, and asking God to still do it. But it is already done. Anyone in Christ is Holy. You can't get more holy. And your walk will only reflect Christ once you start believing God's evaluation of you in Christ.

They aren't believing, but are faithless, in regards to what they have in Christ. No doubt they believe in His forgiveness, and I don't ever call into question anyone's salvation regardless of their lifestyle, but they are not believing who they are in Christ. They think it is still something they have to attain to.

P.S. Can you tell us who the preacher is?

Yes, you're right. I sort of wrote this fresh from listening. I'm still working through exactly when/where it goes off. So my first response in regards to "being made holy" was a natural reaction to just hearing like I was a congregant. And the only recourse I know is running back to Jesus and then going to Scripture. But that's not where they go with it. It's hard to figure out the deception when they seem to lift up justification and sanctification by Jesus alone for you and then sort of backtrack making the ENTIRE sermon a bait and switch.
What's cause for the most consternation though is upon hearing the final prayer, You must make three choices. You either need Jesus for "the first time," of course then you may come to think this weekly believers altar call is part of the process.
(There are times I still pray: I believe LORD help my unbelief) or You can examine your heart, very scary, and realize you are falling short and try to shore up and give it a college try. Or You might decide upon looking at your heart to thank God that You are loving Him mind, body and soul this week. Sounds like a Pharisaic prayer.
I'll come back to this later, hopefully there will be more responses to think about. And I'm going back for a very painful second listen. Sorry, can't take this bull by the horns and give out names. He's only famous in his circle but it's still too dangerous.

[FinallyFree]

Keswick theology meets practical reality.

[beensetfree]

Wow! Fantastic article. Don't know anything about this guy but this was incredible insight.

http://nieporte.name/?p=1029

[exOBCstudent]

(09-21-2011 09:11 AM)beensetfree Wrote:  Wow! Fantastic article. Don't know anything about this guy but this was incredible insight.

http://nieporte.name/?p=1029

Indeed the article was well written. Thanks for sharing!

[oneflewoutofthecuckcoosnest]

Egotism.