"Biblical Counseling" Movement

[Naomi]

(01-13-2011 08:41 PM)Tony Mel Wrote:  

(01-13-2011 06:02 PM)Naomi Wrote:  Sometimes you learn more about what's really OK by dissenting instead of complying. (Imagine that.)

Wow.

I'm unsure what you mean. In case I was unclear, I'm referencing the "unwritten rules" that exist but you don't realize until you break them. And the fact that many people say it's ok to disagree, but it's really not.

[MrsSarahN]

Ugh, I despise the idea that "there is no such thing as mental illness" SO much. My ex-church constantly told us psychology was completely humanist. My dad has been depressed for as long as I can remember--he would go days in a dark cloud, refusing to speak unless it was absolutely necessary. And then he would go to church and get preached at for having a bad heart, which would make him sink farther. He is even worse now that he has been diagnosed with a disease. If he had been in a non-fundy church, he would have been seeing a doctor or therapist, getting help. I suggest to my mom all the time that he needs to go to counseling but she thinks having him "talk to the preacher" is counseling. Grrrr.

Anyway. I haven't heard of either of those groups but they sound very fundy and dangerous to me. =\

[Jenn]

Quote:Run! All Christian counseling did for me was add another layer of guilt and shame.

it is one of the cruelest things the fundy church did to me, not just treat me like a sinful pariah but try to scare me out of going to the people who were best qualified to help me. I have nothing but contempt for "christian counselors" and advise those I know are suffering to avoid them like the plauge. IMO, you're better off talking to your doctor and having him/her recommend a competent therapist.

Ugh, I despise the idea that "there is no such thing as mental illness" SO much. My ex-church constantly told us psychology was completely humanist. My dad has been depressed for as long as I can remember--he would go days in a dark cloud, refusing to speak unless it was absolutely necessary. And then he would go to church and get preached at for having a bad heart, which would make him sink farther. He is even worse now that he has been diagnosed with a disease. If he had been in a non-fundy church, he would have been seeing a doctor or therapist, getting help. I suggest to my mom all the time that he needs to go to counseling but she thinks having him "talk to the preacher" is counseling. Grrrr.

I wish someone had warned me about all these things when I was at BJU studying Nouthetic Counseling. I would have saved myself years of grief and pain. I suffered from untreated depression for over ten years, and would not seek psychiatric help, wouldn't even mention it to my doctor. I really believed that if I was a better Christian, I would not be depressed. Quote from fundy U professor: "A depressed Christian is a contradiction in terms." Also, "If you're a worried Christian, you might as well wear a big sign around your neck that says, 'I don't trust God.'"

I am thankful that I hit rock bottom in 2006, because I was forced to seek professional help. I was gradually more and more amazed that my secular counselor was not "the wicked" as I was so often warned about. I am overwhelmed with gratitude for the kindness I received from my psychiatrist (Muslim) and my psychologist (Jewish). It changed me forever.

[Zoraïde]

I thought this article was helpful on nouthetic counseling

http://www.baptistdeception.com/mental-health/

Thankfully the church I was in wasn't hugely into that, but still had bits of it floating around.

[Scorpio]

(01-14-2011 08:17 AM)Natalie Wrote:  I've noticed this in the non-denom churches around here. I mean, if one WANTS to do something, then by all means, but when work and have families and spouses, I'm sorry, but priority has to go to that and the church must understand. That's just my opinion.

You are so right Nats (hope you don't mind me calling you that). I had always heard that we were to work our family schedule around the church schedule. That is just wrong. Like you said, if someone wants to do a certain work, fine. But to try to guilt everyone into doing more more more (in the name of serving God) well that is just wrong.

[Jenn]

Quote:I thought this article was helpful on nouthetic counseling

http://www.baptistdeception.com/mental-health/

Great article. Complete with a Jay Adams follower getting all pissed off in the comments. Adam's counseling manual is second to the Bible itself to some people, and his outdated book is loaded with praise on Amazon, and outcry against those who would give a one star review:

http://www.amazon.com/Competent-Counsel-...0310511402

[Jenn]

This is the sort of compassion you'll receive from Nouthetic Counseling. From an Amazon.com review:

presuppositionalist says:
"My family then insisted I see a doctor because I was on the verge of suicide."

And this had nothing to do with choices you made? The reality is that we would have to know a tremendous amount about your life before we could ever tell whether illness was related to sin. I have friends who loathe nouthetic counseling not because NC is in itself wrong but because they take offense to the idea that they were responsible for their poor choices. One friend blamed his depression on his genes, for example, when I knew full well that it wasn't that simple.

[Jenni]

I would be pretty concerned as well. I agree that there is a definite need in the Christian community for counselors/therapists who can offer real help with a Christian perspective, but I don't know that there are many places where that is available.

I am a survivor of childhood abuse and molestation, and when I approached one of the ladies in our church for some advice/counseling, I was told a couple of things that really disturbed me:
1. My abuse may not have happened. I was probably making it up in my head because I wanted attention.
2. When I have flashbacks it is sin because I want to remember the abuse. Flashbacks are my fault and I need to recite Bible verses out loud to counter them. (I hate, Hate, HATE the idea of using the Bible as a magic wand or panacea like this.)

When I finally left IFBism and returned to the real world, I started seeing a therapist who also happens to be a Christian. It's been good to talk to her because she understands and respects my religious beliefs but can also offer some real-world support for things like flashbacks without making me feel guilty for something out of my control. When I first started seeing this therapist, I told a few of my friends - those who knew about the abuse - basically as a "hey, this is a great answer to prayer, now I'm getting help" kind of thing. Most of them were very supportive, but one of my friends sent me several long emails where she insisted that I was sinning by going to this therapist and that I really should find a biblical counselor to help me out.

I deleted her emails. Been there, done that, threw away the t-shirt.

[Tony Mel]

(01-14-2011 01:09 PM)Jenni Wrote:  2. When I have flashbacks it is sin because I want to remember the abuse. Flashbacks are my fault and I need to recite Bible verses out loud to counter them. (I hate, Hate, HATE the idea of using the Bible as a magic wand or panacea like this.)

Those ladies are clearly ignorant of the Scriptures.

[JimE]

(01-13-2011 03:21 PM)Kevin Wrote:  1. There is no such thing as mental illness, it is simply your conscience reacting to guilt or sin.

As others have noted, this is BS. Also note that this is an assumption and not based on scientific study.

(01-13-2011 03:21 PM)Kevin Wrote:  2. The Bible is the "sole authority" for life - prooftext is "everything we need for life and godliness" - I think the Bible should be the main but not the only

The scope of the prooftext is rather limited. Go to the non-fiction section of the library and note the amount of material that is not in the Bible. Ask to see the counselling books the couselor has read. Then you will begin to understand how limited the Bible is in this area and the deception the Christian counseling community is attempting by making this statement.

(01-13-2011 03:21 PM)Kevin Wrote:  3. The idea that I must do something to grow and be more like Christ - I am not an advocate of apathetic Christianity, but the emphasis on giving counselees homework to do followed by consequences if they don't complete has alerted my IFB meter.

Big time alert on this. This is a typical cult technique. I received couseling from a certified counsellor in the early 1990's. After a few month's I gave up on it. It wasn't effective. It did not address the real issues I was dealing with. The verses I were suppose to memorize were not applicable. The things I was suppose to fill my life with did not match my personality or the skills that God has given to me.

(01-13-2011 03:21 PM)Kevin Wrote:  4. The constant push in church to give more, serve more, la da da da da. - maybe I am just getting apathetic?

More cult. Run away. Run away. Doing things for God does not make you more spiritual, does not make God love or favor you more. Doing more makes you tired, poorer, and empty. You pay the price, those around you pay also. Do only that what God has given you the skill, time, and resources to do. Nehemiah did not rebuild the walls of Jerusalem, God did.