Spare the rod?

[steviusthedevious]

(01-12-2011 12:14 PM)wannabe exfundy Wrote:  I am curious about your views on discipline of children.

punishment ≠ discipline. we'll see how that viewpoint holds up when/if i ever have children

i think rote punishment (spanking, in this case) is a cop-out; discipline should be involved, and not reactionary. you should train a child, not conduct watsonian behavioristic experiments.

[Faith]

I am not parent.

Spanking taught me to fear my parents' disapproval. Because I was afraid of them, I did not feel safe talking to them about things that might upset them. A healthy relationship that emphasized love and acceptance instead of fear and disapproval likely would have spared me a lot of trouble, because issues would not have been left to fester.

[Naomi]

(01-12-2011 12:14 PM)wannabe exfundy Wrote:  I've recently read that the verse fundies use to justify (sparing the rod and spoil the child) was really used in the context of a shepherd's rod, instead of a switch.

This just makes my heart race. That phrase--spare the rod, spoil the child--is NOT in the Bible. This is where it's from. Yeah. Sex. Not for children.

I think it's important to be very clear about what everyone means by "spanking." To some parents, it means a quick swat on the behind, over a 3-year-old's diaper or clothes. To others, it means beating a naked child with a dowel rod or plumbing supply line until the child's will is "broken." It might be dangerous to just discuss spanking without clarifying what we each mean, as anyone reading could think we're justifying methods called "spanking" that are absolutely abusive and should never, ever be done.

Developmental research is really important to look at. It's too often overlooked. Another thing it's good to be aware of is that the buttocks area is an erogenous zone. I think people don't like to talk about this, but my gosh, do we need to. There's a reason "spanking" as practiced by many of our parents (knowing about the punishment in advance, removing clothing, bending over, specified number of hand/rod swats, immediate submissive reconciliation) strongly resembles BDSM practices. I encourage finding out what the consequences of certain ways of spanking can be to children's sexual development.

Alice Miller wrote some really interesting analyses of German child-rearing that is not far off a lot of fundy practices. You may want to check it out. It's not just spanking that's problematic; it's the whole philosophy of ownership and control.

Darrell's point that he used to know everything before he became a father is well taken. I have no children yet, but even when I do, they will all be individuals and every day I'll be adjusting and learning. However, I can say my personal decision is to not spank them. I know other parents who have been able to lovingly provide structure and limits without that particular tool, and I hope to follow their example.

[Tooktheredpill]

Quote:I think its important for those who were disciplined in a completely improper way to recognize the tendency to follow our parents example.

I believe this is an important thing to keep in mind. In my experience, many parents with the tendency to go overboard in their use of spanking have experienced the same excess in their childhoods.

In my opinion, the excessive/abusive use of spanking by fundies demonstrates the danger of religion serving as a justification for evil. After all, many of our fundy parents believed they were justified in ignoring psychology (and human decency), because the Holy Book condoned their choice of discipline.

[RJW]

I do think that although certain "disciplinary methods" may or may not be Biblical, that does not necessarily make them wrong or harmful. "Time out" is not found in Scripture, but can be used effectively.

In the same way, regardless of what one believes about the rod and its meaning in the Bible, I personally see no harm in a couple of swats (with one's hand) on the bottom of a toddler's behind (over clothing) to "re-direct" them from potentially harmful behavior. I hardly see that as abusive.

On the other hand, I would be the first to say that using a belt or a "stick" to hit a child with their pants down (leaving marks/bruises) is NOT a spanking and constitutes child abuse.

Consider also, that rearing your child/children with NO discipline or guidance is also wrong and hurtful. It's about balance and seeking to do your best as parents before God.

[Celeste A]

(01-12-2011 01:02 PM)Darrell Wrote:  I used to have a perfect philosophy of discipline.

Then I became a parent.

I'm glad God's grace is big enough for both me and my incredibly strong-willed child.

ETA: On a site note, I no longer dispense parenting advice. You know your kids. You (hopefully) love them more than I do. I'll be happy to rejoice with you and commiserate with you but I have no great words of wisdom to share.

Ha! This is me...to a "T".

God gave us a very strong-willed (and possibly Autistic - we're in the midst of diagnosis) child to humble me...and chuck my polished parenting plan out the window.

Love your side note. So wise.

[Celeste A]

Books:
Grace Based Parenting
Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson

Websites:
http://aolff.org/
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/to...ipline.php

[Smith]

(01-18-2011 12:52 PM)Celeste A Wrote:  Books:
Grace Based Parenting
Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson

Websites:
http://aolff.org/
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/to...ipline.php

Great resources Celeste!

[captain_solo]

(01-19-2011 12:49 PM)Smith Wrote:  

(01-18-2011 12:52 PM)Celeste A Wrote:  Books:
Grace Based Parenting
Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson

Websites:
http://aolff.org/
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/to...ipline.php

Great resources Celeste!

If you like "Grace Based Parenting", follow it up with "Why Christian Kids Rebel" another excellent book by Tim Kimmel

[JordanMaria]

(01-12-2011 11:09 PM)Faith Wrote:  I am not parent.

Spanking taught me to fear my parents' disapproval. Because I was afraid of them, I did not feel safe talking to them about things that might upset them. A healthy relationship that emphasized love and acceptance instead of fear and disapproval likely would have spared me a lot of trouble, because issues would not have been left to fester.

It was the same for me. I was a very good kid, always aiming to please and just a disapproving look would be enough to bring me to tears. My father never spanked me, it was always my mother and instead of looking for alternatives for punishment, it was always a spanking. My mother was quick to anger as well, so I often had a sore bottom. I remember one time finding bruises on my backside and crying with humiliation and fear.

When I have children, I'll spank if only drastic measures are needed and try not to do so in anger. Even then, I think I'll have my husband spank. I don't think a mother's hands should be used for spanking.