Divided the movie

[Robin]

Watch and discuss....

http://dividedthemovie.com/

[Ricardo]

Started watching the movie. First 10 minutes.

Ken Ham appears two or three times. The issue of believing in a literal interpretation style of Genesis is placed right up there with preaching a biblical message... Ken Ham asks: (Not a direct quote "If we can't believe Genesis literally, how can we believe the rest of the bible?" Easy: like the vast majority of Christians do.

I disagree with what I consider is the basic premise of the movie: That youth is leaving the evangelical church because they are leaving God.

Those of us who have left the church we grew up in can tell you many things. Number one: Evangelical churches do not do "teen-age" well. Psychologists have known for years that the teenage years are the time when children need to transition from externally imposed beliefs to internally believed principles.

We need to get to the point where we believe in not murdering someone else, NOT because the law says so, Not because a book says so, not because our pastor says so, but because we, individually have come to that conclusion. We have to come to love God not because we are afraid of the consequences of not loving him (some "love" that would be.") Unfortunately, so mnay of our churches never go past the "Love God, or else" stage.

Our churches are all about telling us what to believe, how to believe it, and almost nothing about having a constant relationship with a living God.

Yes, many of the youth activities are misguided. but not because of wrong music styles, "bringing in the world rather than separating from it," but because we are not preparing our kids to be able to decide for themselves.

Yes, I don't see many 15 to 20 year-olds making adult decisions. But the answer is not to control them or manipulate them into making the decisions we want them to make. Part of the solution is to give them the tools for them to make their own decisions in their own time.

The 80% statistic is statistical hogwash.

Yes, 80% of youth have left the church they grew up in. But 80% of youth leave their homes, leave their cities and towns. Which means, statistically nothing.

The goal for youth activities in church should NOT be to try to make these kids into little adults.

It is late. got to work tomorrow. I would like to watch the rest of the movie. I'm sure I will have more to say.

[Ricardo]

OK. I watched the whole movie.

I don't mind people saying: "we have a different idea about how to do church: a group unsegregated by age." I'm curious how that works, may look around for an example of such a church.

What I do mind is telling me that this is the "Biblical way," that any other way of doing things is wrong.

The movie started with dreadful statistics about how the "traditional" churches with youth ministries have a 10% or 20% retention rate for youth.

I want to see what the statistics end up for this other style of doing things. I bet you the statistical difference between one style and the other will be insignificant.

I did noticed there is not a single mother in the whole movie.

The idea of a pastor who can do everything, be everything for everybody is a recipe for disaster. I believe it is biblical to recognize that there are believers who need meat while other believers need to stay on milk for a while longer. I want to hear sermons every now and then that are not necessarily appropriate for kids.

I guess I can explain most of what makes me uncomfortable with this movie with my signature... These are complicated questions that the movie is trying to find a simple, easily understood answer.

The kid is young. Let's give him a few years... talk to him then.

[briceman]

I saw this film a long time ago at a Christian film festival.

The main problem I had was thinking anything "man made" or "man devised" would "save" more kids. Honestly, I don't care about statistics because I believe that those who God saves will either come back to a body of believers (which can look and function many different ways) or stay within their current context of body of believers. This notion that we can judge by stats is preposterous. It's fundy to the core.

[Josh]

If I could find family integrated worship without all of the other legalistic, patriocentric baggage that seems to follow it, I might consider giving it a shot. I've never been to such a church or met someone who follows that method in real life. The only ones I've heard about on the internet would separate from someone who is leaning more toward things like egalitarianism and theistic evolution, like myself.

[paul]

^^^^ This!!!!

[tena]

As a preface to my statement let me say I am a teacher by trade, a youth leader at my church, and the mother of three sons (21, 19, & 16) so this is a topic that is close to my heart. I love teenagers and love to have the opportunity to work with them, teach them, and mentor them.

I watched this movie. My questions would be why can't a teenager get his primary mentoring or Bible-teaching in the home from his parents and still participate and be active in a youth program at his/her church? Why is there the assumption that all youth programs are shallow and unedifying? Why is it wrong for teenagers to get together just for fun? I would much rather have teenagers have good, fun activities planned for them through their church than out on their own just hanging out. I am also bothered by the absence of mention of mother's influence on her children.

Anyone who has spent anytime with teenagers knows that one of their very basic needs is to socialize. I think we can teach them a lot about how to do this in healthy and productive ways through a good youth program at their church. It also gives them a place to find adult role models they can look up to and talk to that aren't their parents. Kids will often talk to a youth worker about things they won't talk to their parents about.

I have no problem with a family choosing to be involved in a church setting that always keeps all ages together if that is what they want, but to say it is the only Biblical way to worship is not correct.

[Ricardo]

Fact: As children grow up they may develop opinions that are different from their parents.
Fact: As children grow up they may move out of the sphere of influence of their parents.
Fact: At least in the U.S. there are few families that survive in the same church for more than two generations.

What is the role of the church?

I would contend that it is NOT to hold them hostage, or cocooned inside the church walls. Instead our role is to prepare them to serve The Lord wherever they may go.

Our role is NOT to repress those raging hormones of teenagers, but to give them an outlet that is safe. Our kids need to meet other kids their age. How are they going to fall in love, get married if we are controlling how they dress, what they sing how they walk and how they talk.

Our kids need to make mistakes and learn to trust their instincts. How are they going to do that if we are all meeting in the same sactuary? I would prefer if I was spared the annual sex talk for teenagers. In fact, my son would love me if I pulled him also from that painful experience...