Top 10 Signs Your New Church is not Far Enough Away From Fundyland

[Away-From-The-Umbrella]

(07-03-2011 04:07 PM)pastors wife Wrote:  I'm wondering if attendance at their school would go up, not if they change the curriculum, but if they dropped these rules:

Quote:3) The church school had a rule prohibiting someone from transferring directly from a public school...They had to do a year of rehab...I mean homeschool...to be able to gain entrance into the church school.

4) The church school had a rule against a family having some kids in the public school and some in their school. All or nuthin...
. . .
9) A parenting class based upon the book Growing Kids God's Way is required for entrance into the church school. They want everyone in the school on the same page, ya know.

Personally, I'm trying to balance my distrust of legalism with the fact that we Christians have individual soul liberty, thus some Christians may just like courtship, planning survivalist strategies, Harvest festivals, etc. I want to allow them freedom to be MORE restrictive than I even as I also expect them to allow ME the freedom to disagree. It's awkward sometimes - it's often more comfortable to be with people who agree with us - but I think it's important to allow for diversity in the body.

I look for the demonstration of the fruit of the Spirit. If people are gentle, loving, patient, gracious, self-controlled, and slow to anger, seeking unity not division, I am a lot more willing to allow them some idiosyncracies of belief.

But if everyone is holding one particular belief and you're not - such as courtship - it might be difficult to be accepted, especially if you have children who want to date!

I like that you say their emphasis at their school is teaching a Christian world view which is antithetical to the world. Rules about haircuts and music are so shallow when compared to learning to focus on being selfless and service-oriented and patient instead of being selfish and desiring instant gratification the way most of our society does.

I know of a few families who rejected the school because of those ridiculous rules. We decided never to use the school after a friend said the school rejected their youngest children's admission because their high school kids were in the public school.

I agree with you that we have to allow diversity in the body of Christ - we all need that. I am just concerned that a lot of this stuff is originating from the leadership and their spouses. It's not always coming from the pulpit, but the culture of the church itself (and the school reflects it).

If someone does not want their child to hang out with mine (or date, whatever) because we are against courtship, it is their loss. Having learned many painful lessons in my former cultic fundy church, my kids' social life is not overly dependent on church friends. They now have a much broader social circle.

[Away-From-The-Umbrella]

(07-04-2011 08:22 PM)pblawman Wrote:  How long has the pastor been there? It sounds to me like a church that may be moving away from fundyism and the pastor is picking his battles. If all of those things were to change at once there might not be anything left. As for his view on spiritual abuse, I would disagree and maybe push him a bit on it. Pastors aren't perfect, and if he has the right spirit he might come around. Perhaps he still has some fundyism residue. I know I do. The nice thing is I can usually spot it when it shows up.

This pastor has been there a long time.

He does manage to keep the peace amongst a congregation with wildly different beliefs (drinking alcohol vs abstinence; calvinism vs arminianism; courtship vs dating). Yet they all come together to worship. I do like the general attitude of tolerance in this church.

Their view on public school kids tends to assume the worst. Major fundy trait. It would be better to interview the prospective student and family to see if their world views would clash. The church school is NOT a closed school for church members only, but open to any Christian church kids in the area (including Methodist, Lutheran, Calvary Chapel, etc.). This shows they are not looking for lock-step obedience to denominational beliefs, but just basic Christian beliefs.

There is much to like about this church...but the fundy stuff is giving me serious flashbacks.

I will need to get my biblical ducks in order before I do it, but I plan to talk with him about his disbelief in the reality of spiritual abuse. When he said that from the pulpit I was shocked and disappointed. The rest of his sermon was received as "blah, blah, blah" because I had totally tuned out at that point.

[pastor's wife]

I'm glad you're going to talk to him about it.

[paul]

I like the suggestion of the guys on White Horse Inn. (paraphrase) If you pastor doesn't absolve you of your sins by preaching the gospel each and every week, find another church. (And when they say gospel, it is the truth that Christ paid for our sins, not the fundy "hell-fire" turn or burn sermons.)

Sounds like your church is fundy-lite. There are a lot of churches out there like this, and for people who haven't come through the extremes of Fundamentalism, it may be a perfectly fine religious experience. We are at a church like I describe above, and I still get twitchy. Difference now is that my pastor specifically told me to tell him if I ever do get twitchy about something he says. He wants to know and wants to understand why so that he can present it better in the future. (Being in the greater Greenvegas area he is alert to the problems we ex-fundies deal with even though he hasn't experienced them personally.)

While I wouldn't suggest finding a church that you are comfortable at, I would strongly suggest finding a church where truth is taught. And the basic truth is that Christ did it because I can't. You need to hear that often.

[dthatcher]

Maybe the question isn't so much whether the church is far enough away from fundyland as whether YOU are far enough away from fundyland. I say that to point out that so much of what we perceive is just a matter of what hits our psychological triggers. The "twitch" remains with us but we recognize that it could just as easily be a matter of psychological scarring as it is an objective reaction to nonsense.

[briceman]

(07-03-2011 12:06 PM)co_heir Wrote:  

(07-03-2011 06:57 AM)Faith Wrote:  A church can be a toxic place without being Fundy. Look at Mark Driscoll's Mars Hill as a ferinstance.

Driscoll is a fundy with cooler music and clothes.

I know I've defended him in the past and I will now, totally disagree.

[leaving]

(07-11-2011 11:57 AM)briceman Wrote:  

(07-03-2011 12:06 PM)co_heir Wrote:  Driscoll is a fundy with cooler music and clothes.

I know I've defended him in the past and I will now, totally disagree.

Do you defend Driscoll's bullying over the weekend, too? You can read about it here:

http://www.elizabethesther.com/2011/07/g...-a-ok.html

http://rachelheldevans.com/mark-driscoll-bully

[leaving]

(07-11-2011 12:17 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  

(07-11-2011 12:05 PM)leaving Wrote:  Do you defend Driscoll's bullying over the weekend, too? You can read about it here:

http://www.elizabethesther.com/2011/07/g...-a-ok.html

http://rachelheldevans.com/mark-driscoll-bully

I've never really gotten the whole Driscoll obsession that some people seem to have nor do I understand why people have to search really hard to find stuff to gripe about him that's not wrong either. One of those links, don't recall which, is picking on him for liking cage fighting. Big deal. Get a life. My favorite past time is MMA and if you don't like it I'll armbar you

Some of his other comments about masculinity and effeminate behavior and all that.. the point he's trying to make is not inherently bad. I think he just says too much and froths at the mouth a bit. I just ignore that kind of nonsense.

In other words, I've never really understood why critics try really hard to pile on (and fail) when the juicy stuff is right there. It's like complaining about AC/DC having back-masking when they're singing about being on the highway to hell when the music is going in the right direction.

Actually, both these women are complaining about his shenanigans over the weekend in particular. Who is Driscoll to invite others to gossip about worship leaders in their churches?

[briceman]

(07-11-2011 12:05 PM)leaving Wrote:  

(07-11-2011 11:57 AM)briceman Wrote:  I know I've defended him in the past and I will now, totally disagree.

Do you defend Driscoll's bullying over the weekend, too? You can read about it here:

http://www.elizabethesther.com/2011/07/g...-a-ok.html

http://rachelheldevans.com/mark-driscoll-bully

I defend giving people a break and forgiving them for screwing up! Driscoll isn't perfect and he WILL BE the FIRST to tell you that. I respect him for being honest about his faults, and admitting he says things he shouldn't. Most people wouldn't admit that.

I am not a "he man" and have different views than some of what Driscoll thinks, however I still respect the man, and think he and I would be great friends.

I'm not obsessed either, but I still think he gets wrongly pegged as a fundy sometimes and he is not a fundy.

[Josh]

(07-03-2011 03:25 AM)Away-From-The-Umbrella Wrote:  Top 10 Signs Your New Church is not Far Enough Away From Fundyland

1) You find yourself twitching occasionally during the sermon

My church doesn't have a school - most members with kids have them enrolled in the local public school, while a few teach their kids at home. The thing that really hits home from your list is the sermon twitch. Our senior pastor is a self-described recovering fundamentalist. He's somehow managed very well to leave behind the legalism and judgmentalism, but I still twitch when he quotes people like Lester Roloff and Curtis Hutson with great respect and admiration. Thankfully, his quotes come from a diverse range of authors, and hardcore fundy quotes come up only infrequently. I twitch much more frequently at the micro-sermon before the offering each Sunday morning, but that's not just a fundy thing, so it doesn't count for this list.