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Ricardo · (This post was last modified: 06-19-2011 11:26 AM by Ricardo.)

In today’s blog, http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/06/.../#comments We had a spirited discussion about one specific statistic, “60,500 souls saved”

This has always been a bone of contention with me. I’ve even spoken with officials of some evangelistic ministries about this. How many people attended the rallies? How many more viewed the program on Christian TV station? Both of these are estimates. How many souls were saved? (Estimate.) How many came forward? (Some documentation.) How many names/phone numbers were collected by the counselors up front?

Here is where it gets interesting:

After that moment of Ineffable Grace, how many of those people were called back? How many attended a church within the next two weeks? How many continued going to church three months after the fact and six months after the fact?

How many of those who made a decision for Christ are attending a Church a year after the fact?
(BTW, I know… “church attendance” is not necessarily a good indicator of a transformed heart…)

While the statistics for that are, again, only estimates, they are pretty dismal. The RoI (return on Investment,) is really bad.

When I see the millions of dollars that someone like Benny Hinn rakes in from one rally, and you divide it by the number of “souls” still in church a year later, turns out anyone of us could think of better uses for that money.

co_heir · 06-19-2011, 07:03 PM

Well, you also can't assume that every fundy preacher is concerned with anything more than building their reputation within the "not a" network

**JimE** · 06-20-2011, 04:31 PM

60,500 souls saved. wow. amazing.
LOL
I think that God has this ManOGawd beat in the numbers game.

Shredder1 · 06-20-2011, 06:10 PM

I see the same thing in our soon to be ex church. The Pastor and his son went to the Philipeans not to long ago and was invited to go to all the schools in the area they were in and present the gospel to the children. Of course they came back and reported they seen around 4500 children saved! But they only had a very short time at each school, and they mostley spoke through interpreters, and we watched videos they took while they were there, and they just asked the kids if theyt wanted to be saved raise your hand for salvation. WOW, all you have to do is raise your hand to salvation. Since we joined this church they have claimed hundreds to have been saved, but not one single one comes to church there. There were a few that started coming for a few weeks but quit coming. They would always come back from their soulwinning trips and brag about how they led another one to Christ, or they won another(like Jesus couldnt do it with out them). Its all about numbers. They just want to be a large church like First Baptist of Hammond!

Rob S · 06-20-2011, 06:48 PM

A bit of simple math:

He was saved in January of 1975. During the ensuing 36 years, he would have had to average 4.6 people saved every day. But I am sure no one has ever called him on his numbers.

paul · 06-21-2011, 01:52 PM

(06-20-2011 06:48 PM)Rob S Wrote: A bit of simple math:

He was saved in January of 1975. During the ensuing 36 years, he would have had to average 4.6 people saved every day. But I am sure no one has ever called him on his numbers.

From one math geek to another(?), if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he is preaching an average of three services a week (like a legitimate pastor with a real job), then he has an average of 11 salvations per service. Them are pretty good numbers.

Ricardo · 06-21-2011, 11:00 PM

I can't remember the exact statistics right now, but roughly,the number of "saved" people who actually joined a church within two Sundays of when they were saved at a rally was about 50%, number of those who were still attending after 6 months went down another 25% and the number of those still attending church a year after the rally was something like 10% of the original number. Doesn't matter if it is Billy Graham or Luis Palau.

exIFB · 06-22-2011, 01:55 AM

I read that statistic in a book that's main goal was to present another way of presenting the gospel. What I would like to know are the statistics from the very popular method present in that book. I would wager they aren't any different (and probably worse in fact, since the Christian life portrayed therein is impossible to live up to, and I guess many people would despair and quit out of sincerity).

hac84 · 06-26-2011, 06:16 PM

"Keep those cards and letters flooding in-- we had one flood in about three weeks ago, (thanks, Mom.)"

Guilt Ridden · 05-02-2012, 05:20 PM

(06-20-2011 06:10 PM)Shredder1 Wrote: I see the same thing in our soon to be ex church. The Pastor and his son went to the Philipeans not to long ago and was invited to go to all the schools in the area they were in and present the gospel to the children. Of course they came back and reported they seen around 4500 children saved! But they only had a very short time at each school, and they mostley spoke through interpreters, and we watched videos they took while they were there, and they just asked the kids if theyt wanted to be saved raise your hand for salvation. WOW, all you have to do is raise your hand to salvation. Since we joined this church they have claimed hundreds to have been saved, but not one single one comes to church there. There were a few that started coming for a few weeks but quit coming. They would always come back from their soulwinning trips and brag about how they led another one to Christ, or they won another(like Jesus couldnt do it with out them). Its all about numbers. They just want to be a large church like First Baptist of Hammond!

This desire to keep numbers is not Scriptural. I've heard the arguments ("God cares about numbers - He even named a book in the Bible 'Numbers'!" or "Someone counted the 3,000 saved at Pentecost"), but the only instance of a man numbering people without God directing him to do so was David, and he got into trouble with God for it.

There is no Biblical evidence that anyone counted the people saved at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit gave those numbers to us... and these Christians also were baptized and continued with the apostles. If we're going to count, how about we count only those who get baptized and "continue" with us?? That would deflate a lot of egos, but we would lose the pressure to have such great numbers.