Define God

[Annie Moose]

Should clarify one part of that, if you seriously do want a real conversation on this: most people here would agree than God is genderless. But because the only genderless pronoun we have in English is "it" and that's... not really a respectful one, we generally default to "him", as the default pronoun in English is generally male. (many languages are like that, actually--for example, in Spanish, if you're talking about a mixed group of people, you use male plural nouns. The debate over why this is or what we should use instead is a topic for another time, however)

"Holy" is pretty vague, too. I'd say everyone would agree God is "holy", but that's a very broad term.

[RobMille]

it is generally a depersonalized pronoun, which is more of the problem than "respect". I guess could be one and the same. I'm not sure any language has a pronoun to refer to a being with a personhood/personality that doesn't include gender.

Separate note; Pastafari is not serious.

[Annie Moose]

Well, true, and I know I shouldn't be feeding him. But the "male" thing is a fairly common misconception, in my eyes. God is never stated to actually be male in the Bible, after all. It says that both man and woman were made in his image, so you could just as easily (and just as incorrectly) say God's a woman!

But as we all know, the KJV uses "he", therefore God MUST be male!

On a side note, what's the fundy opinion on using "he" vs. "He" when referring to God? After all, the KJV doesn't use it... (which, interestingly enough, an acquaintance once cited as one of the many reasons they prefer the NKJV over the KJV!)

[Don]

(06-01-2011 07:31 PM)pastafari Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 09:06 PM)Don Wrote:  Not what, who. Define "who" God is. God is not a "what."
He has already identified himself in Scripture and tells us who he is and his relation to all of creation.

He is the I AM. This declaration means he is not subject to linear time as we are.
He is Holy.

I am asking because I do not know God yet. I want to know a definition everyone can agree upon so we can discuss this without resorting to strawman. Once a clear definition is made, then hopefully I can know what you are talking about and we can determine it's existence.

By your description I can gather that God is male, is a person, is not subject to linear time, and is holy. How do you know this? How can I verify this myself, or how would a third party verify this? What does Holy mean?

@Pastafari
To what end? If God could be proven in such a way that would fit your demands for empirical proof. What would you do then? Would you then "believe" in him? You are like the crowd who called to him while he was on the cross, "Come down and save yourself and we will believe." You want a god who performs for you, and to your standard. You remind me of Pharaoh who said, "Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice and let Israel go? I do not know the LORD, and moreover, I will not let Israel go."
You and I could go on for days, weeks, months. I could plead the Case for God until my fingers were worn down to mere nubs, and still you would not be any closer to knowing God than you are right now. Until the God of all creation does a work of Grace in your heart and draws you to himself, you will never see God, know God or experience the grace of God.
You demand something that no-one is able to give and that is the elusive emperical proof that you believe will satisify your intellect. God did not leave us with that. Probably knowing that we would worship the tangilbe evidence rather than the one the evidence points to.

Pastafari, I sincerely hope that one day you will see the evidence that is already before you. The evidence in some sincere Christian's life and God will perform that work of Grace in your heart. I cannot give you the forensic emperical proof you claim to require before you will believe. I can only give you why I believe. See, I was a religious church go-er all my life. I followed the formula as a child, said the prayer, got baptized and for the next 29 years thought I was a pretty good christian. I could play the game, knew all the phrases and had the right answers. At the age of 38 the Lord began dealing with me. I soon realized that I was going to be one of those in Matthew chapter 7. "Lord, Lord, haven't I done all these "things" for you?" And Jesus would have said, "Depart from me you worker of lawlessness, because I never knew you."
You see, he did a work of grace in my heart one night. I was not necessarily looking for him. In fact I was smugly setting in my own self-righteousness when he dealt with me that evening. I know he is real. Not based on some experience but because I take him at his word. He is who he says he is in Scripture. He saved me. I know that doesn't cut any ice with you and you may dismiss what I am telling you out-of-hand. I am not responsible for what you do with my testamony, or whether you believe what I tell you. That is totally between you and God. I can tell you that for some odd reason tonight my heart is heavily burdened for you. I can tell you that while God wants us to use our minds and seek truth and think... God is not found merely with the head and intellect, he is found in the heart. Look for him there.

[oneflewoutofthecuckcoosnest]

"The courage to be is rooted in the God who appears when God has disappeared in the anxiety of doubt."
- Paul Tillich

[pastafari]

(06-02-2011 12:14 AM)Don Wrote:  @Pastafari
To what end? If God could be proven in such a way that would fit your demands for empirical proof. What would you do then? Would you then "believe" in him?

Of course I would believe in God if it was empirically demonstrated. If there was physical evidence that could be demonstrated reliably again and again, I would most certainly believe.

Quote: I could plead the Case for God until my fingers were worn down to mere nubs, and still you would not be any closer to knowing God than you are right now.

Why are you even bothering then?

Quote:You demand something that no-one is able to give and that is the elusive emperical proof that you believe will satisify your intellect.

Why do you personally believe if it is not possible to demonstrate his existence?

Quote: God is not found merely with the head and intellect, he is found in the heart. Look for him there.

My heart is a muscle that pumps blood. There is no person in there.

[pastafari]

(06-01-2011 11:57 PM)Annie Moose Wrote:  God is never stated to actually be male in the Bible, after all. It says that both man and woman were made in his image, so you could just as easily (and just as incorrectly) say God's a woman!

The Bible says many times that God is a he. This implies sex. How do you know that he isn't male? Or female? Did you stumble upon some evidence?

Quote:"Holy" is pretty vague, too. I'd say everyone would agree God is "holy", but that's a very broad term.

So what does Holy mean? Are people holy too?

[boymom]

(06-04-2011 10:08 PM)pastafari Wrote:  My heart is a muscle that pumps blood. There is no person in there.

Sadder, truer words were never spoken.

[pastafari]

(06-04-2011 10:25 PM)boymom Wrote:  

(06-04-2011 10:08 PM)pastafari Wrote:  My heart is a muscle that pumps blood. There is no person in there.

Sadder, truer words were never spoken.

What is that supposed to mean?

[paul]

(06-01-2011 07:06 AM)Shoes Wrote:  Just so we all are using the same terms and so that we can avoid confusion, let’s lay some basic ground rules and definitions of term.
...

I know I am coming late to this party. And I know that I am not the first to say this. (And my 11 year old daughter would love to know I said this.) But, all that aside...

I L:heart:VE SHOES!!!!!

Quote:ASIDE
People who dealt with familiar spirits were wicked. To be unfamiliar with something is good. Ignorance is power, knowledge is wicked. So sayeth the managawd, so let it be done.

Honolulu