is there a verse/ passage that actually says....

[Bob M]

Closest I can come is 2 Peter 1:3

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence.

God has given us all we need, In the scriptures and the Presence of the spirit, for life and godliness.

[Ricardo]

Yeah, but...

That verse is in the Mormon bible too. and in the Jehovah's Witnesses bible, and in the Adventist's Bible, and the 79-book Catholic bible, as well as the 66-book bible.

So which committee was God's REAL committee?

[Bob M]

(07-06-2012 08:59 PM)Ricardo Wrote:  Yeah, but...

That verse is in the Mormon bible too. and in the Jehovah's Witnesses bible, and in the Adventist's Bible, and the 79-book Catholic bible, as well as the 66-book bible.

So which committee was God's REAL committee?

Go be a Mormon.

[Historian]

Another point that hasn't been fully explored, but which does have bearing on this issue, is the misinterpretation of the concept that the Bible is the final authority on all matters.

As someone already said, the Bible never claims to have exact instructions on how to fix your car, remove your appendix or groom your dog. But when it explains that mankind was made in God's image, and for the purpose of stewarding the creation He gave, then it makes sense that mankind should investigate every area of knowledge and advance and specialize in it. We were made to do so. Far from ignoring the help and advice of experts, the mature Christian will actively seek them out when necessary, acknowledging them as an outworking of the Creator's great design for the world.

In addition to that, the spiritually lazy (and there are lazy Christians, as there are lazy people of every kind) like to trot out the "final authority" argument as an excuse for their sloth. (I have no one in mind from this thread, so don't jump on me, k? I'm actually thinking of several fundies I know). They want the Bible to spell out in three easy steps how to do everything, and when it doesn't they try to force it to do so. That's because they want to avoid the hard work of learning how to apply Biblical principles to life. Prov 2 has a disconcerting list of verbs that describe the difficulty of searching for wisdom. It doesn't come by magic, but by hard work. Paul tells Timothy that he has to train for godliness, and study to know how to use God's word effectively. He condemns those with unhealthy cravings for arguments and controversies and silly myths and useless quarrels of all kinds. The diligent workman isn't looking at the Bible as "The Idiot's Guide to Everything," nor is he approaching it for how he can best use it as a tire iron to kneecap someone he doesn't agree with. If all this were remembered, it make this concept of "final authority" less of a controversy. When I say that Bible is my final authority, it doesn't mean that I won't go to the mechanic when my car breaks down. It means I will apply the Bible's principles to everything that happens to me. When the mechanic says I need $5,000 worth of repairs, it means that I will consider how to be a "good steward" of what God has given me–this will inform my decision; I will also consider that the expanded meaning of God's whole teaching on the physical relation I bear to everyone around me is that I am to do everything I lawfully can to preserve the lives and safety of others–this will also inform my decision, if there is anything about the car that makes it unsafe for me or others; I will also consider that the Bible advises that debt is never something to enter lightly (I don't see it anywhere forbidding debt, but it does warn that the borrower is servant to the lender)–this will also be a consideration as I decide what to do. The Bible is my final authority, but if I need counseling or therapy I will get it. What the "final authority" means, however, is that if the therapist or counselor advises me to do something that is sin, I will reject that advice out of hand.

[Ricardo]

It is circular reasoning.

Men wrote the books. Men copied them and shared them widely. Men chose various collections. Men then declared them as official, God's word.

Now, when any of us have any doubts about this process, we are accused of questioning God Himself.

Does your bible have the doxology ending of the Lord's Prayer? (This is not minor. We are talking about whether Jesus said this or he did not!)

How did you decide on one version or another?

Like pregnancy, there is no such thing as being ALMOST inerrant.

We have no alternative but to admit that God speaks to us through the various leaders of the churches. NONE of whom can claim inerrancy for themselves, for their decisions, for their choice of canon, for their choice of specific passages to include or remove from the "officially" accepted bible. (Accepted by God? no. Accepted by men.)

[Ricardo]

"The message is Holy."

Yes, I would tend to agree with that.

The problem is that it sets us up: Which message? The bible publishers have had just enough courage to take out the Johanine comma, and the doxology at the end of the Lord's Prayer.

However, they have still kept the last 13 verses of Mark, even though there is consensus among experts that this passage was added later.

I am hoping the publishers NEVER take out the story of Jesus and the sinner woman. ("He who is without sin, throw the first stone.") Even though there is consensus also that this story was added.

Same goes for the pastoral epistles to Timothy, Titus and Philemon. There is growing consensus they were NOT written by Paul. (That would include II Tim 3:16...)

Which means, the problem is not the scriptures per se, nor what they actually say. The problem is elevating scriptures to a level of authority they do not merit. We have exchanged the Glory of God for images written by mortal men.