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bamabob1 · 04-24-2011, 01:45 PM

The term pastoral authority has been referred to by a number of IFB pastors as to why they can what they do. The main problem with that is it is no where in scripture! But hey when you are in control why bother with the truth! Just wondering if others have heard this term.

leaving · 04-24-2011, 01:57 PM

Haha all. the. time. And if you don't like or are offended by something the pastor said or did, you just have a problem with authority. That's how they explain away everything they do wrong.

TomK · 04-25-2011, 11:10 AM

"not being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock."

That verse was a game changer for me after being taught pastoral authority for years.

GraceThruFaith · 04-25-2011, 11:17 AM

(04-24-2011 01:57 PM)leaving Wrote: Haha all. the. time. And if you don't like or are offended by something the pastor said or did, you just have a problem with authority. That's how they explain away everything they do wrong.

My fundy pastor discussed this briefly last night. He concludes that your submission to God reflects itself with your submission to man (gov't, church, etc.). Of course, you must support that conclusion with Scripture, so he uses Hebrews 13:17.

Don · (This post was last modified: 04-25-2011 11:30 AM by Don.)

(04-25-2011 11:17 AM)GraceThruFaith Wrote:
(04-24-2011 01:57 PM)leaving Wrote: Haha all. the. time. And if you don't like or are offended by something the pastor said or did, you just have a problem with authority. That's how they explain away everything they do wrong.

My fundy pastor discussed this briefly last night. He concludes that your submission to God reflects itself with your submission to man (gov't, church, etc.). Of course, you must support that conclusion with Scripture, so he uses Hebrews 13:17.

As Maxwell Smart would say, "The old, how can you reverence God if you don't reverence the Man-of-God, trick."

bamabob1 · 04-25-2011, 12:07 PM

It amazes me that they never see in a number of verses that there is always a plurality in leadership in a church. They are never to operate in a vacuum. There are many verses that mention the elders in the "church". I guess that they were studying so hard on tithing they missed those.

GraceThruFaith · (This post was last modified: 04-25-2011 12:14 PM by GraceThruFaith.)

(04-25-2011 12:07 PM)bamabob1 Wrote: It amazes me that they never see in a number of verses that there is always a plurality in leadership in a church. They are never to operate in a vacuum. There are many verses that mention the elders in the "church". I guess that they were studying so hard on tithing they missed those.

The thing is, they just dismiss elders to be 'pastor'. No exegesis needed.

Question: would multiple pastors be okay, so as they are on an equal plane with no one higher in position than the others?

Kim G · 04-25-2011, 01:59 PM

My parent's semi-fundy church voted on a new pastor two years ago, and this guy is an "I AM BOSS" kind of a guy. It's awful. He calls himself the CEO and says everyone in the church has to obey him because he "watches for their souls." Yech!

I'm so grateful for my non-fundy pastor (I guess I'd call him the "teaching elder" since we have three elders). I've never met a more gracious, sincere, humble man. He loves God and he loves people, and everyone who meets him knows it.

Annie Moose · (This post was last modified: 04-26-2011 09:12 AM by Annie Moose.)

(04-25-2011 12:07 PM)bamabob1 Wrote: It amazes me that they never see in a number of verses that there is always a plurality in leadership in a church. They are never to operate in a vacuum. There are many verses that mention the elders in the "church". I guess that they were studying so hard on tithing they missed those.

The group I'm with has a few major differences from other groups, but this is probably the biggest. We don't actually have a pastor. All the men can participate if they like, sharing the duties of speaking, praying, giving out hymns, etc. There is a group of "elders" who are considered to be responsible, mature people (both in spiritual and nonspiritual matters) and they're held responsible for keeping things running smoothly, arranging the meetings, taking care of administrative things like paying the taxes or water bills, that sort of thing. They're also are respected in spiritual matters, so if you have a question or a problem you can go to them, and they take care of things such as carrying out baptisms and so on. And they aren't really considered better than everyone else--it's a responsibility, not an honor.

I know it's quite different from most churches, but it's what we feel is right. The Bible never talks about a single person in charge of a church, it's always in the plural. The head of the church is supposed to be Christ, not some man. And the particularly nice thing is that this way, we never have to worry about only one person trying to take control!

greg · 04-26-2011, 10:31 AM

(04-26-2011 09:11 AM)Annie Moose Wrote:
(04-25-2011 12:07 PM)bamabob1 Wrote: It amazes me that they never see in a number of verses that there is always a plurality in leadership in a church. They are never to operate in a vacuum. There are many verses that mention the elders in the "church". I guess that they were studying so hard on tithing they missed those.

The group I'm with has a few major differences from other groups, but this is probably the biggest. We don't actually have a pastor. All the men can participate if they like, sharing the duties of speaking, praying, giving out hymns, etc. There is a group of "elders" who are considered to be responsible, mature people (both in spiritual and nonspiritual matters) and they're held responsible for keeping things running smoothly, arranging the meetings, taking care of administrative things like paying the taxes or water bills, that sort of thing. They're also are respected in spiritual matters, so if you have a question or a problem you can go to them, and they take care of things such as carrying out baptisms and so on. And they aren't really considered better than everyone else--it's a responsibility, not an honor.

I know it's quite different from most churches, but it's what we feel is right. The Bible never talks about a single person in charge of a church, it's always in the plural. The head of the church is supposed to be Christ, not some man. And the particularly nice thing is that this way, we never have to worry about only one person trying to take control!

I am still working through this since having left the hard-core IFB about 3 years ago. I'm involved in helping a small church get started, and have strongly hinted that we drop the IFB moniker, finally coming right out a couple of weeks ago and confronting the pastor about doing just that, he wasn't buying. His experience in the IFB was also not a good one, but he does buy into much of the theology, and how "to do" church, but is not nearly legalistic as his old church was, but still very much into the "one" pastor rule in the church, and all I see is trouble ahead with that mindset.

Just the idea that "one" man can answer all of my spiritual questions, and each week forever has what I need from the Lord seems incredible to me, I think the multiple elder rule seems to automatically have more "safety" involved for everyone including the "elders" as well as receiving "better" advice and counsel. I simply see the one-man rule as rife with all kinds of problems.