Pastoral Authority

[bamabob1]

I think that people are getting it in that they are studying scripture and finding out that among other things fundies are wrong on the single "ruler". It just does not have the scripture to back it up. The model for the New Testament church was and is multiple elders with deacons not a single elder or pastor and deacons. I have challenged a few fundies on the single elder form of church government to show me the verses and have yet had anyone try.

[pastor's wife]

I wonder if some of the animosity toward elder rule comes from . . .

1) the IFB's strong insistence on separation. They don't want to do elder rule because some other denomination that they don't agree with it is doing it. They think that doing the same thing as other churches means approval so they won't do it. (Of course, that hasn't stopped them from singing hymns, having choirs, having an organ, etc.)

2) the pastor's fear of losing his salary. IFB churches usually have one pastor who (if the church can support him) serves as pastor as his full-time job. If the church were led by elders, would the church pay all of them equally? This is probably not possible financially for most churches. Would the former primary pastor still get paid a full salary? If he does, how would the other elders feel about this? Is it just a pastor protecting his livelihood that keeps him from advocating elder rule?

[Annie Moose]

Yeah, in our group elders aren't paid. Offering money goes into a general account for paying the bills, gifts/support to missionaries, paying for any events we hold, that sort of thing. We don't differentiate between teaching/shepherding elders, though, but I'm sure that varies with groups. (as every belief or stance does!)

[JimE]

This is a root concept of all kinds of evil from the ManOGawd. It is based on a distorted interpretation of scripture.

[Shredder1]

At my church they preach that if you dont agree with the Pastor, you should go to him and find out why your wrong! Because he is the MOG and has a special insite and better understanding of scripture. REALLY! This is why Im visting other churches and about to make my exit. Of course they know somethings up because we havnt been there every time the doors are open.

[Shoes]

greg Wrote:Just the idea that "one" man can answer all of my spiritual questions, and each week forever has what I need from the Lord seems incredible to me, I think the multiple elder rule seems to automatically have more "safety" involved for everyone including the "elders" as well as receiving "better" advice and counsel.

This is one thing that I love about the church I now attend. We have a senior pastor. There are probably 10 other pastors under him. I also like that they aren’t called “Junior Pastors” either. Each of them is responsible for a specific demographic in the church (young adults, young married, senior citizens, missions) There most definitely is a check and balance system in place. I also like that each man is given an opportunity to preach, not too often, but at least once a year or so. Considering the number of them, and only 52 weeks in the year, it’s nice. We get a wide variety of messages from a number of different perspectives. Some are very traditional, some put multi-media into their sermon. It is nice to hear what all these men have to say, and if you have children under them, it’s nice to see what your children’s pastor thinks and preaches.

[leaving]

(05-09-2011 11:20 AM)Shoes Wrote:  

greg Wrote:Just the idea that "one" man can answer all of my spiritual questions, and each week forever has what I need from the Lord seems incredible to me, I think the multiple elder rule seems to automatically have more "safety" involved for everyone including the "elders" as well as receiving "better" advice and counsel.

This is one thing that I love about the church I now attend. We have a senior pastor. There are probably 10 other pastors under him. I also like that they aren’t called “Junior Pastors” either. Each of them is responsible for a specific demographic in the church (young adults, young married, senior citizens, missions) There most definitely is a check and balance system in place. I also like that each man is given an opportunity to preach, not too often, but at least once a year or so. Considering the number of them, and only 52 weeks in the year, it’s nice. We get a wide variety of messages from a number of different perspectives. Some are very traditional, some put multi-media into their sermon. It is nice to hear what all these men have to say, and if you have children under them, it’s nice to see what your children’s pastor thinks and preaches.

This is ours too. They have six pastors, all with different "areas" of specialization. One is youth, one families, one community, etc.

[TomK]

(05-09-2011 11:20 AM)Shoes Wrote:  

greg Wrote:Just the idea that "one" man can answer all of my spiritual questions, and each week forever has what I need from the Lord seems incredible to me, I think the multiple elder rule seems to automatically have more "safety" involved for everyone including the "elders" as well as receiving "better" advice and counsel.

This is one thing that I love about the church I now attend. We have a senior pastor. There are probably 10 other pastors under him. I also like that they aren’t called “Junior Pastors” either. Each of them is responsible for a specific demographic in the church (young adults, young married, senior citizens, missions) There most definitely is a check and balance system in place. I also like that each man is given an opportunity to preach, not too often, but at least once a year or so. Considering the number of them, and only 52 weeks in the year, it’s nice. We get a wide variety of messages from a number of different perspectives. Some are very traditional, some put multi-media into their sermon. It is nice to hear what all these men have to say, and if you have children under them, it’s nice to see what your children’s pastor thinks and preaches.

I prefer this model myself. If our church were larger, this is probably the direction we would go.