good sources for correcting my indoctrination

[Ricardo]

I have no problem proving God is real. (where?) Down in my Heart!

What drives me crazy is when someone tries to claim that THEIR INTERPRETATION is the only way God can possibly get in touch with us, that THEIR translation, that THEIR canon, that THEIR church.

If God speaks to you through the 79 book bible, who am I to try to prevent God from doing so? If instead, the psalmist sees the Glory of God through what the heavens proclaim, who are we to contradict him? (Did he say "the prayer?")

The problem, and real stumbling block for so many of us, is: what happens when we put our trust in Men-o-Gawd, and in this or that book, only to find out there are problems with both? Frank Viola's books are the worst, when it comes to historical revisionism.

Viola spends 80% of his books inventing ways to interpret History to claim that everyone else is wrong and that he is the only one who "gets" God. No different from the churches we left.

Rather than claim that we've got THE TRUTH, and nobody else has it, how about if we simply state that we have found God this or that particular way, and that we are sharing it with others, just in case God can use it to help them?

[That'sWhatItSays]

I am not a cheerleader for any particular teacher, so I would agree. We all have blind spots. But ultimately, we have to make judgments. I personally don't need to revisit the canon issue. I have studied it out, and I am content to believe in the 66, especially in light of what we have from Polycarp, who wrote considerably early in terms of extant Christian history. Do we lean on men? No, but their labors throughout history have pointed men "towards" the Light.

You can't just state to people that you have found God this way or that way...at some point, you have to tell them that some ways are NOT the way. In fact, the whole point of Darrell's blog is to illustrate how "out" of the way fundamentalists (who particularly claim to have the way) can get.

I don't like to say that I have the truth, or Viola is the truth, or the Sword of the Lord is the truth, or whatever. I think the truth is 100% pure. Our manifestations of the truth are, by nature, less than 100%. Our goal is to strive for the 100%, while simultaneously dealing with each other graciously.

[pastor's wife]

B-Ray, I love how God's Word often warns us about turning to the right or to the left! It's easy to get led away in different directions. But I do believe God's Word and His Spirit will guide us especially as we study the Scripture and stay humble.

When I was in fundamentalism, we were often proud of our ability to dissect obscure passages of the Bible and discuss various details of doctrine. But in rethinking things, I've decided to sometimes lay aside all the questionable, uncertain doctrines and focus on what may be the milk of the Word to relearn what being a Christian is all about. I do value truth -- highly -- but I want to focus on the essentials of the Gospel message. I'm convinced for me that it's more important that I demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit in my life than if I have a "correct" interpretation of the use of the sign gifts in today's church.

Again, I'm not saying that doctrine isn't important, just that I don't want to quibble over things that aren't as important. "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless" (Titus 3:9)

We were always warned in the IFB about those "shallow" Christians who just loved everybody but let all their doctrine slide. But fundies were so concerned about studying doctrine and details of Scripture that they often were angry, ungracious, and prideful! Both are errors! I want to speak the truth in love. And I do pray that God guards my mind that I don't slip into serious error or end up denying the truth. Then I trust Him to keep and preserve me and live in joy and confidence not fear!

[redbeardiam]

ThatsWhatItSays Wrote:you'll have to conclude that Christianity focused on the sermon and the authority of one man at the head of the church is just anti-thetical to the entire New Testament and come to realize the intent of the manipulation is not to draw us closer to God, but to solidify the power structure in existence.

(05-26-2012 08:54 AM)Ricardo Wrote:  Frank Viola's books are the worst, when it comes to historical revisionism.

Viola spends 80% of his books inventing ways to interpret History to claim that everyone else is wrong and that he is the only one who "gets" God. No different from the churches we left.

If the house church people ever get out of their cage phase, somebody please let me know.

EDIT: Says, this was not primarily directed at you. It's just that that line of yours reminds me of every angry hurt evangelical I've heard who decided that house church was the answer. I know that there are many wonderful house church movements across the globe - China is a good example - but there seems to be a particular tribe of house-churchers here in the US that have a grudge to settle.

[Mommy2Kids]

I know it's easy to say just read Scripture and compare what you read with what you hear. However, for someone easily swayed, that is probably more easily said than done. But, that is the first place to start. I bought an AMG Key Study Word (KJV) Bible while I was teaching at a fundy church school. That was an eye-opener. While the preacher was twisting scripture, I was looking up words in the Greek and Hebrew and saw for myself what the Bible was teaching. More often than not it didn't line up.

[That'sWhatItSays]

(05-26-2012 12:47 PM)redbeardiam Wrote:  I know that there are many wonderful house church movements across the globe - China is a good example - but there seems to be a particular tribe of house-churchers here in the US that have a grudge to settle.

I agree. House churches are not "the" answer.

[B-Ray]

(05-26-2012 12:42 AM)elizabethn Wrote:  

(05-25-2012 08:49 PM)B-Ray Wrote:  I was one those, but since leaving, i now have more sensitive ears, yet still very capable of misunderstanding. I realize there are many unbelievers here as well as believers.

Thats my 2cents

You do not know who here is a believer or unbeliever, not even if they use those labels to identify themselves. You do not read minds or know hearts. Let go of the labeling and the little boxes and don't be worried about supposed "salvation status."

You are right, i cant look on anyone's heart nor was i claiming to have that ability. And i quit worrying about others salvation a long time ago. I was not assuming, i was stating a fact and not in a judgmental way. you should have gathered that by the context. Ive read many posts here where people have said they were not believers. There is also a space for unbelievers. So i dont think i was too far out of line.

And this is a dangerous world. Not the world that God created, but the world system that satan is god of. There are many dangers to be avoided and we must be wise about them, both physical and spiritual. I know leaving legalism is liberating, but we must be careful not to drop our armor also. God gives does give us good sense and His Spirit, so don't be so naive to think that all is happy and glory, and tulips and lollipops all the time. satan, like it or not is after you and me.

So yeah, i mess up, and you do to. You should try to see where some one is coming from instead of always trying to jump on them, at least thats my experience with you elizabeth on this forum.

[elizabethn]

(05-26-2012 11:20 PM)B-Ray Wrote:  And this is a dangerous world. Not the world that God created, but the world system that satan is god of. There are many dangers to be avoided and we must be wise about them, both physical and spiritual.

I prefer to focus on the fact that God is big enough to take care of me, instead of worrying about "dangers" that might be nothing but my imagination. God gave me a mind and a lifetime's worth of learning/wisdom/experience to see actual threats.

Quote: I know leaving legalism is liberating, but we must be careful not to drop our armor also. God gives does give us good sense and His Spirit, so don't be so naive to think that all is happy and glory, and tulips and lollipops all the time. satan, like it or not is after you and me.

And you would think that I am, um, "naive".....why, exactly? Did the Holy Spirit give you some kind of "word of knowledge" or something? Do you have some kind of special "insight" that I think any of that bullshit? Nah, I didn't think so.

Quote:So yeah, i mess up, and you do to. You should try to see where some one is coming from instead of always trying to jump on them, at least thats my experience with you elizabeth on this forum.

I have yet to jump on you. I have, indeed, confronted you several times about your judgmental words, attempts at "mindreading" and foolish assumptions. Let me guess, you don't like being confronted by a female, eh? Newsflash: That's how it works in the USA today, especially in cyberspace. You don't get to pick who confronts you, and you don't get to script the confrontation.

Trust me, when I "jump on" someone, and yes, I do occasionally do that, it looks very, very different.

If you are so desperately threatened by mean old me, by all means feel free to use the block button. Or not. I don't care. I might be a tiny bit impressed IF you continue to make efforts to expand your mind, but I won't be surprised if you don't.

You, sir, got identified as a troll and banned not long ago. Remember? The reason that happened is because you sound very much like someone who isn't gone from IFB. You managed to convince someone in charge that you are indeed gone from IFB. You may in fact have left an IFB church. But you still have a LOT of IFB in you.

If you think you're going to NOT get confronted here when you spout your IFB stuff that's still part of your indoctrination, you need to think again.

Are you going to nurse your persecution complex or are you going to open your mind?

[Bob M]

(05-26-2012 11:20 PM)B-Ray Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 12:42 AM)elizabethn Wrote:  You do not know who here is a believer or unbeliever, not even if they use those labels to identify themselves. You do not read minds or know hearts. Let go of the labeling and the little boxes and don't be worried about supposed "salvation status."

You are right, i cant look on anyone's heart nor was i claiming to have that ability. And i quit worrying about others salvation a long time ago. I was not assuming, i was stating a fact and not in a judgmental way. you should have gathered that by the context. Ive read many posts here where people have said they were not believers. There is also a space for unbelievers. So i dont think i was too far out of line.

And this is a dangerous world. Not the world that God created, but the world system that satan is god of. There are many dangers to be avoided and we must be wise about them, both physical and spiritual. I know leaving legalism is liberating, but we must be careful not to drop our armor also. God gives does give us good sense and His Spirit, so don't be so naive to think that all is happy and glory, and tulips and lollipops all the time. satan, like it or not is after you and me.

So yeah, i mess up, and you do to. You should try to see where some one is coming from instead of always trying to jump on them, at least thats my experience with you elizabeth on this forum.

Actually in contra to Elizabethn I think we should care about people's salvation status and try to win them. Paul the apostle said he became all things to all men that he might win some.

[B-Ray]

[/quote]

The reason that happened is because you sound very much like someone who isn't gone from IFB. You managed to convince someone in charge that you are indeed gone from IFB. You may in fact have left an IFB church. But you still have a LOT of IFB in you.


[/quote]

I am just out, yet still trying to get my mind in order. didn't you go through the same?