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Papa Bear · 05-01-2012, 08:45 AM

(05-01-2012 08:28 AM)boymom Wrote:
(05-01-2012 08:25 AM)Papa Bear Wrote: One thing he said that really bothered me was, "If you decide to obey, you are in rebellion."
He went on to say that anything short of unthinking obedience is rebellion. Maybe we should start a thread of harsh, heretical, and downright creepy Gothard sayings.

Wouldn't that be about all of them?

Just about. There are two reasons he won't sell you his books until you've attended his seminar:

1. Most pastors who have reviewed his materials find them heretical. But pastors usually don't have the discretionary time to attend his seminar, so they promote it based on recommendations from their members.
2. To not question, let alone be creeped out by, his ideas, you must first spend several hours marinating in his Kool-aid.

Lady Julian · 05-01-2012, 09:03 AM

I think we must have read the Character Sketches. I checked on Amazon, and the books look familiar. Also, I know its not the quite the same thing, but my family received, and may still be receiving, No Greater Joy - the Pearls' magazine. Yech.

Looking back, I realize that my parents were loving and thoughtful people who thought for themselves (both of them have a college degree, and my father has a graduate degree) and protected my sister and I from the brunt of these teachings. Unlike many people here, my parents were mostly normal, and I thank my God every day for that.

Nevertheless, I imbued a distinctly legalistic attitude growing up, and I believe that some of the sources and context in which I was raised contributed to that. At least in the States, conservative Republican homeschooling families tend to emphasize behaviour to such a degree that it makes it easy for kids to pride themselves on being conservative, Republican, and homeschooling.

Papa Bear · 05-01-2012, 09:29 AM

(05-01-2012 09:03 AM)Lady Julian Wrote: I think we must have read the Character Sketches. I checked on Amazon, and the books look familiar. Also, I know its not the quite the same thing, but my family received, and may still be receiving, No Greater Joy - the Pearls' magazine. Yech.

Looking back, I realize that my parents were loving and thoughtful people who thought for themselves (both of them have a college degree, and my father has a graduate degree) and protected my sister and I from the brunt of these teachings. Unlike many people here, my parents were mostly normal, and I thank my God every day for that.

Nevertheless, I imbued a distinctly legalistic attitude growing up, and I believe that some of the sources and context in which I was raised contributed to that. At least in the States, conservative Republican homeschooling families tend to emphasize behaviour to such a degree that it makes it easy for kids to pride themselves on being conservative, Republican, and homeschooling.

My experience was similar. My parents are good people, and for the most part, reasonable. But they trusted anyone their church, christian school, christian radio station, or Bible college told them to trust, which led to tension in the family when we weren't quite so trusting, having been burned by authority figures before. They still think we would be better off trusting the people they trust, but they have mellowed out quite a bit, and even admit that a few of the things done by certain authority figures in the past were wrong.

Several years ago, I thought about using Character Sketches with my children. I knew there were problems with the books (my parents still have vols. 1 & 2) but thought I might find something useable. Who could be against good character, right? I found three problems with the books:

1. Every character trait is portrayed as always good or always evil, even those traits that could be good or bad, depending on the situation. (Trust, for example. There are times when it is wise and good, and times when it is foolish and dangerous. The biblical book of proverbs is filled with contrasts like this. Character sketches does not acknowledge or even mention this distinction.)

2. The connections between the animal stories and the traits they are supposed to teach are not only contrived, they are questionable at best.

3. In every case, the interpretations of the Bible stories are way off base. I tried to find selected chapters I could agree with and read to my sons. There was nothing usable in these books. Not one single page.

If anyone is interested in reviewing Gothard's materials, they turn up all the time used on Amazon. DO NOT give his organization money, or sit in his brainwashing sessions. It will take years to get your head on straight again, so you can think as clearly as you did before.

**boymom** · 05-01-2012, 10:13 AM

I confess that we actually have Character Sketches, Vol. 1 & 2. We bought them from a speaker at family camp a few years ago. We liked the animal stories. I used them as teaching material for a little while, but amended them quite a bit. Never realized they were connected to a whole parenting philosophy until I started reading here. Of course, I never really read them all the way through, either.

FindingMyWay · 05-01-2012, 01:58 PM

(05-01-2012 08:14 AM)C_Fresh Wrote: I've gone to the basic seminar a couple of times before college. My family has a bunch of Gothard and S.M.Davis stuff. The thing that creeps me out the most is when my parents say something and the kids have to respond with "may I please make an appeal?" if they don't like it. Not sure who that came from but it sounds Gothardesque.

I think the "appeal" thing maybe comes from the Pearls ... also whacked-out nutjobs.

**Scorpio** · 05-01-2012, 02:05 PM

(05-01-2012 08:45 AM)Papa Bear Wrote: ......you must first spend several hours marinating in his Kool-aid.

It's a Cookbook!!!!!

dramaturge · (This post was last modified: 05-01-2012 02:29 PM by dramaturge.)

Gothard pushes appeals as well. This includes for adult children approaching parents, since he pushes that even adult children are under a measure of parental authority. I believe there is even an outline in some of the material (advanced seminar level, maybe?) for the proper steps of an appeal to a parent.

Edit: I don't know this for sure, but based on what I've picked up about the Pearls and what I know about Gothard, I suspect the Pearls are into Gothard on some level. Perhaps even inspired by his philosophy. I would not be surprised by it if they were.

**JordanMaria** · 05-01-2012, 03:58 PM

Gothard.

GAG

We went to the conferences in Knoxville, we had Wisdom Booklets and Character First and blah blah blah.

Someone who has ZERO experience in raising a family and being in a relationship has absolutely NO business teaching others how to run theirs.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/

This website is by and for those who are healing from all that mess.

**Arch Radish** · 05-02-2012, 07:52 AM

(05-01-2012 03:58 PM)JordanMaria Wrote: Gothard.

GAG

We went to the conferences in Knoxville, we had Wisdom Booklets and Character First and blah blah blah.

What years? If you were there in 1996, were you that one Excel girl who yelled "EYEBALLS!" when passing by us ALERT cadets? Totally worth the pushups we got. Smile

Also, that one blubbering kid who didn't want to be there at all? Yeah, that was totally...erm...not me. *ahem*

Papa Bear · 05-02-2012, 09:57 AM

(05-02-2012 07:52 AM)Arch Radish Wrote: What years? If you were there in 1996, were you that one Excel girl who yelled "EYEBALLS!" when passing by us ALERT cadets? Totally worth the pushups we got.

Can you tell us more about the ALERT program?