It happened again.

[Bob M]

(04-23-2012 02:22 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  

(04-23-2012 02:15 PM)exOBCstudent Wrote:  You seem pretty feisty for a new member. Only 15 posts and you're already shedding lead? Wow.

Don't hate on the newbie ^_^

Don't be a blowhard and no one will hate on you.

[Hollandmichigan]

(04-23-2012 08:24 PM)Bob M Wrote:  

(04-23-2012 02:22 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  Don't hate on the newbie ^_^

Don't be a blowhard and no one will hate on you.

Aha, right. I think theres just a serious difference in forumn culture than what im used to. But no matter

[Mommy2Kids]

(04-23-2012 08:24 PM)Bob M Wrote:  

(04-23-2012 02:22 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  Don't hate on the newbie ^_^

Don't be a blowhard and no one will hate on you.

Good advice.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(04-23-2012 11:54 AM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  

(04-23-2012 09:54 AM)Elijah Craig Wrote:  It has driven home to me what the purpose of marriage (and concubinage) is: it gives women some assurance that they'll be taken care of when the natural result of sexual relations occurs.

Ugh, first of all your negative attitude toward sex-workers is mawkish and ignorant. Your thoughts on marriage are also highly sexist and ignorant. Marriage as assurance to women that they'll be "taken care of"?! Did you just crawl out of 1925? many families are made up of single, independent mothers who have no need or desire to get married. Most families are probably made up of parents who both earn a living. Many others are made up of women who are the primary income earners. Educate yourself--it might save you from a lifetime of bachelorhood...and turning down evul sex-workers

Even in 1925, marriage wasn't about "taking care of women."

[Persnickety Polecat]

(04-23-2012 11:58 AM)Elijah Craig Wrote:  

(04-23-2012 11:54 AM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  Ugh, first of all your negative attitude toward sex-workers is mawkish and ignorant. Your thoughts on marriage are also highly sexist and ignorant. Marriage as assurance to women that they'll be "taken care of"?! Did you just crawl out of 1925? many families are made up of single, independent mothers who have no need or desire to get married. Most families are probably made up of parents who both earn a living. Many others are made up of women who are the primary income earners. Educate yourself--it might save you from a lifetime of bachelorhood...and turning down evul sex-workers

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you sound like a dumbass.

This being said by someone who assumes women are incapable of caring for themselves and their children?!

[Hollandmichigan]

(04-23-2012 09:04 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  

(04-23-2012 11:54 AM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  Ugh, first of all your negative attitude toward sex-workers is mawkish and ignorant. Your thoughts on marriage are also highly sexist and ignorant. Marriage as assurance to women that they'll be "taken care of"?! Did you just crawl out of 1925? many families are made up of single, independent mothers who have no need or desire to get married. Most families are probably made up of parents who both earn a living. Many others are made up of women who are the primary income earners. Educate yourself--it might save you from a lifetime of bachelorhood...and turning down evul sex-workers

Even in 1925, marriage wasn't about "taking care of women."

The religous aspect to marriage aside, culture in the 1920s was definitely much more centered around male dominance... A woman with a career would have been unheard of, let alone an unmarried woman living independently.

[Ricardo]

Opinions are fine. The problem is when we try to lord our opinions over everyone else.

As ex-IFBers, we are experts at taking any written material, be it sacred books or simple statistics and bending them to prove anything we want.

Sexual interest is in a continuum. There has to be room in our conversations for men and women who are barely interested in sex, to men and women who are obsessed with sexual issues. I'm sure we can find sex workers who are happy with their profession, and honorable pimps and madams.

But in the vast majority of cases in the third world, women working in the sex trades are there not because they like it, but because they have no other marketable skills to make a living with.

The protections a prostitute receives in Holland, are wold's apart from the conditions for prostitution in Latin America and in the major cities in the US.

Is it possible that both Elijah and Holland have a bit of THE Truth.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(04-23-2012 09:11 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  

(04-23-2012 09:04 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  Even in 1925, marriage wasn't about "taking care of women."

The religous aspect to marriage aside, culture in the 1920s was definitely much more centered around male dominance... A woman with a career would have been unheard of, let alone an unmarried woman living independently.

That's nonsense. You're buying into rewritten history. Why do you suppose so many women died in the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire (long before 1925, incidentally)? Do you think they were there -- what? -- shopping? No. They were working. Unmarried, young women, working. Maybe middle and upper-middle class women submitted to the patriarchy, but the average working class woman *worked*. It wasn't anywhere near as abnormal as the history books would have you believe.

Incidentally, my grandmother worked full-time as an editor of a newspaper -- and she was firmly in the middle class -- and married AND had children. But that was a bit past 1925.

Marriage was about children. Family. Property. Not providing for women. If it was only about providing for women, then only patriarchal cultures would have the institution, and that's not the case. Every culture has some form of marriage.

[Hollandmichigan]

(04-23-2012 09:13 PM)Ricardo Wrote:  Opinions are fine. The problem is when we try to lord our opinions over everyone else.

As ex-IFBers, we are experts at taking any written material, be it sacred books or simple statistics and bending them to prove anything we want.

Sexual interest is in a continuum. There has to be room in our conversations for men and women who are barely interested in sex, to men and women who are obsessed with sexual issues. I'm sure we can find sex workers who are happy with their profession, and honorable pimps and madams.

But in the vast majority of cases in the third world, women working in the sex trades are there not because they like it, but because they have no other marketable skills to make a living with.

The protections a prostitute receives in Holland, are wold's apart from the conditions for prostitution in Latin America and in the major cities in the US.

Is it possible that both Elijah and Holland have a bit of THE Truth.

I agree you with you. But the Issues youre raising are not with Prostitution but with the fact that its criminialized and deregulated. Legalize it, change the moralistic attitude and regulate the Industry like they have in holland and the abuse ends.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(04-23-2012 09:13 PM)Ricardo Wrote:  Opinions are fine. The problem is when we try to lord our opinions over everyone else.

As ex-IFBers, we are experts at taking any written material, be it sacred books or simple statistics and bending them to prove anything we want.

Sexual interest is in a continuum. There has to be room in our conversations for men and women who are barely interested in sex, to men and women who are obsessed with sexual issues. I'm sure we can find sex workers who are happy with their profession, and honorable pimps and madams.

But in the vast majority of cases in the third world, women working in the sex trades are there not because they like it, but because they have no other marketable skills to make a living with.

The protections a prostitute receives in Holland, are wold's apart from the conditions for prostitution in Latin America and in the major cities in the US.

Is it possible that both Elijah and Holland have a bit of THE Truth.

I'm sitting on Ricardo's bench when it comes to the sex worker discussion. A high class call girl is an entirely different person than the girl standing on the street corner offering $10 blowjobs. The latter is most likely addicted to something and living a miserable existence. The former may or may not be addicted to something, but she's likely leading a pretty decent life.

Regardless, I don't judge sex workers. They do what they believe they have to do. It's not my business. There need to be more laws protecting them.