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Donb123 · 04-09-2012, 07:47 PM

(04-09-2012 07:45 PM)bean Wrote:
(04-09-2012 07:36 PM)myotch Wrote: Also, are you stating that, where ID's are mandatory for carry regardless of voting laws, there is an excuse for actually not having an ID?

Yes. Is this Nazi Germany?

False analogy. Proving you are who you say you are to ensure one person=one vote is not anything at all like showing your papers to move about the country or pass check points.

Donb123 · 04-09-2012, 07:51 PM

The logic of voter ID is impeccable. The anti-ID crowd talks about the "sacred" right to vote. It is because of the high value that we place on voting that it is necessary to ensure that the will of the voters is upheld and not tarnished by fraud.

The anti-ID crowd believes that those who favor ID want to suppress the votes of people who cannot be bothered to get an ID or won't get or whatever their reasons are. They think we should take these peoples' word for it because it's so important that everyone vote.

Well the reality is you can have it both ways. You can ensure that everyone is given a free ID and then the "sacredness" of the ballot is protected and nobody is "disenfranchised."

It doesn't harm anyone. The only reason I can envision for people wanting to thwart such sensible measures is they want to game the system and somebody is trying to stop them.

**myotch** · 04-09-2012, 07:52 PM

LOL @ "nazi". Sometimes you lefties are as cute as you are predictable when you don't have a cogent answer.

bean · 04-09-2012, 07:55 PM

This whole things boils down to an attempt to marginalize certain segments of our population. That's ALL it is.

bean · 04-09-2012, 07:59 PM

Please explain to me why a person in a free country needs an ID to go walk around. To me, that sounds like a concept fresh out of an authoritarian police state.

(04-09-2012 07:52 PM)myotch Wrote: LOL @ "nazi". Sometimes you lefties are as cute as you are predictable when you don't have a cogent answer.

bean · 04-09-2012, 08:02 PM

It harms the 100 year old lady in the nursing home who has voted in the past 20 presidential elections and hasn't driven for 15 years.

Quote:It doesn't harm anyone. The only reason I can envision for people wanting to thwart such sensible measures is they want to game the system and somebody is trying to stop them.

**laurat99** · 04-09-2012, 08:07 PM

I can't see the people who would be disenfranchised by taking time and money to obtain a state issued ID caring about the political process. Many people are so turned off by politics in the local, state, and national level, they don't even bother to try to register to vote. If you are busting your butt trying to get by, politics doesn't put food in your belly.

bean · 04-09-2012, 08:11 PM

Exactly, Laura. Well said.

**myotch** · 04-09-2012, 08:15 PM

So "certain segments" of our population have an excuse for not having an ID where mandated by law.

I find this line of thought incredibly racist, class-ist, and age-discriminatory. Or whatever term for the "minority group" you are trying to exclude from the rule of law by their supposed excuse for not complying with existing, non-discriminatory laws everyone must comply with by virtue of their "minority status".

You really aren't doing anyone any favor by stating that "certain segments" shouldn't have to comply with laws that apply equally to everybody.

Voting is and has always been regulated by the Constitution and through the Constitution by the states. Voting has not always been equitable, but the strength of the Constitution has always provided the expansion of voting rights nationally and through every state. I believe in voting.

Yet, I do not believe non-citizens should vote, I don't believe felons who have lost certain civil rights by due process of law should vote, and I believe in a reasonable way to ensure the individual vote cast is actually the voting will of the person in whose name the vote is cast.

Instead of trying to force the issue of non-enforcement of a simple ID law, why not help those people without ID's get an ID?

**myotch** · 04-09-2012, 08:22 PM

(04-09-2012 07:59 PM)bean Wrote: Please explain to me why a person in a free country needs an ID to go walk around. To me, that sounds like a concept fresh out of an authoritarian police state.

Because it is a matter of law. It's not "authoritarian". EVERY modern society has some law requiring identification. It's a matter of safety, security, and protection, many times for the person carrying the ID.

I can't think of one single liberty or right that is infringed upon by requiring an ID. Can you think of anything substantive?