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**Bill** · 03-17-2012, 07:58 PM

(03-16-2012 04:37 PM)SomethingFundy Wrote: It's funny how they expect everyone to be okay with their comments, we don't follow the constitution and we follow the UN now. Dumb asses, irionic that majority of troops are waking up and have joined the Oath Keepers. I'd be half tempted to rock it in my ROTC class but I am not trusted as it is.

Constitution with a big "C", guy. Respect it.
Secondly, a "majority" of US service personnel do not belong to Oath Keepers.
Thirdly, ROTC is no place to espouse political rhetoric. It is where you are to hopefully learning the skills to try to keep up with the professional warfighters who will be nice enough to let you think you are in charge of them.
Methinks someone has not learned the value of focusing on the 25m target.

squiz · 03-18-2012, 02:20 PM

(03-16-2012 02:21 PM)Darrell Wrote:
(03-16-2012 12:03 PM)squiz Wrote: Maybe, just maybe, soldiers generally have the least clue about what it is all about.

So soldiers are just naturally stupider than the rest of us?

Not at all. As I said, it is important that soldiers are kept believing in their cause. Most military forces therefore ensure that their troops are exposed to enough propaganda to ensure that they believe in their cause. Maybe things are more subtle these days, but I can't imagine the US is any different in this.

~~SomethingFundy~~ · 03-18-2012, 02:55 PM

When Nobama calls the troops on citizens under the NDAA, hopefully a lot of guys will say no.

**exOBCstudent** · (This post was last modified: 03-19-2012 07:52 AM by exOBCstudent.)

(03-18-2012 02:20 PM)squiz Wrote:
(03-16-2012 02:21 PM)Darrell Wrote: So soldiers are just naturally stupider than the rest of us?
Not at all. As I said, it is important that soldiers are kept believing in their cause. Most military forces therefore ensure that their troops are exposed to enough propaganda to ensure that they believe in their cause. Maybe things are more subtle these days, but I can't imagine the US is any different in this.

When I was deployed I worked with what was then called "Psyops" or psycological operations and I assure you, we are not propagandizing OUR troops. Wink

It's hard to fool the guys who are in the field each and EVERY DAY closing the distance with the enemy. They know what's really going on often before the intel community does. So if they're the ones you're suggesting don't understand what's really happening then I suggest you re-think that idea.

squiz · 03-19-2012, 12:15 PM

(03-19-2012 07:52 AM)exOBCstudent Wrote:
(03-18-2012 02:20 PM)squiz Wrote: Not at all. As I said, it is important that soldiers are kept believing in their cause. Most military forces therefore ensure that their troops are exposed to enough propaganda to ensure that they believe in their cause. Maybe things are more subtle these days, but I can't imagine the US is any different in this.
When I was deployed I worked with what was then called "Psyops" or psycological operations and I assure you, we are not propagandizing OUR troops. It's hard to fool the guys who are in the field each and EVERY DAY closing the distance with the enemy. They know what's really going on often before the intel community does. So if they're the ones you're suggesting don't understand what's really happening then I suggest you re-think that idea.

This was in response to a comment by Darrell that

Quote:...most of the soldiers I've talked to who have been over there (and I work with them every day) say that they believe that what we're doing in Afghanistan is both right and necessary.

I don't doubt that soldiers know better than anyone what is going on on the ground. This knowledge however has nothing to do with whether their cause is right and necessary.

Quote:I assure you, we are not propagandizing OUR troops.

They all say that. Tongue

.
But seriously, are you telling me that there is zero effort made to explain to the troops the purpose of their mission? (Ok, CNN does a pretty good job already of preparing the whole population, so maybe it is not necessary). Do you only inculcate an obey-orders mentality, a "Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do & die" mentality?

**exOBCstudent** · 03-19-2012, 12:42 PM

(03-19-2012 12:15 PM)squiz Wrote:
(03-19-2012 07:52 AM)exOBCstudent Wrote: When I was deployed I worked with what was then called "Psyops" or psycological operations and I assure you, we are not propagandizing OUR troops. It's hard to fool the guys who are in the field each and EVERY DAY closing the distance with the enemy. They know what's really going on often before the intel community does. So if they're the ones you're suggesting don't understand what's really happening then I suggest you re-think that idea.

This was in response to a comment by Darrell that
Quote:...most of the soldiers I've talked to who have been over there (and I work with them every day) say that they believe that what we're doing in Afghanistan is both right and necessary.

I don't doubt that soldiers know better than anyone what is going on on the ground. This knowledge however has nothing to do with whether their cause is right and necessary.

Quote:I assure you, we are not propagandizing OUR troops.
They all say that. .
But seriously, are you telling me that there is zero effort made to explain to the troops the purpose of their mission? (Ok, CNN does a pretty good job already of preparing the whole population, so maybe it is not necessary). Do you only inculcate an obey-orders mentality, a "Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do & die" mentality?

If you're mentioning the "overall Theater-level mission" then we don't get that pounded into us much at all. Each command will focus on their current local mission within their jurisdiction. Each Commander sets their own mission focus so it's not easy to "propagandize" Army-wide as easily as one might think. Most of the soldiers I'm with laugh when they watch CNN as we tend to know the REAL story behind some of their reports and how flawed it can be at times. Wink

Have you ever spent time in any of the Armed Forces? It seems that you aren't as familiar with how things tend to generally flow (information-wise). Every Commander I've served with has NEVER sent troops on a mission blindly and with a lack of information. The "ours but to do and die" scenarios are seriously avoided in most cases.

If you think it's gonna be easy to "pull the wool over" the eyes of the majority of America's troops actually on the battlefield then you're greatly mistaken. I think you're trying to make a point that really isn't there.

EmilyKing · 03-19-2012, 01:05 PM

(03-18-2012 02:20 PM)squiz Wrote: Not at all. As I said, it is important that soldiers are kept believing in their cause. Most military forces therefore ensure that their troops are exposed to enough propaganda to ensure that they believe in their cause. Maybe things are more subtle these days, but I can't imagine the US is any different in this.

Exposed to what propaganda? Military members don't live in an isolated bubble, and they don't all have the same opinions on every major issue.

***Darrell*** · 03-19-2012, 09:08 PM

(03-19-2012 01:05 PM)EmilyKing Wrote: Exposed to what propaganda? Military members don't live in an isolated bubble, and they don't all have the same opinions on every major issue.

Didn't you get the memo that military personnel are no longer allowed to watch TV, read newspapers, listen to the radio, or surf the Internet? No?

From now on all of your opinions will be given to you via a microchip implanted in your scalp. Enjoy!

***Darrell*** · 03-19-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote: Each command will focus on their current local mission within their jurisdiction. Each Commander sets their own mission focus so it's not easy to "propagandize" Army-wide as easily as one might think.

We OF COURSE you would say that. You're a stupid soldier who doesn't even know when he's being brainwashed!

You just keep thinking that!

**Tiarali** · 03-19-2012, 09:25 PM

Alright, well remember that I went through a completely different history program in education than the rest of you, but it seems to me that in the world wars propaganda played a huge role, both in trying to teach our troops that they were on the side of right, and to try and demoralise the enemy. Of course, back then communication was a lot slower than it is today all round, so it was probably a lot easier to keep people isolated from an intelligence point of view.

I think that some people picked up those ideas and assumed that the military still works that way.

Also, I think that fundies spend a lot of time focusing on how propaganda will cause people to turn away from godly values. That's one justification they give for the level of separation they practice. It's possible that those of us who left fundamentalism still see the actions of those around us that believe differently to us as being the result of propaganda; it can take time to realise that different people are able to see the world in different ways based on different personalities and experiences.