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greg · 01-31-2012, 09:45 AM

Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example ot those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdomof God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders."

1 Corinthians 6: 18 "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

Romans 1:24 "Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another."

Romans 1:26 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations withh women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Romans 1:28 "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."

Romans 1:32 "Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Genesis 18:20 Then the Lord said "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous,"

Whether someone is "wired" toward homosexuality or not, the teaching regarding homosexuality in the bible is very clear.

Recovering · 01-31-2012, 10:46 AM

(01-31-2012 09:45 AM)greg Wrote: Whether someone is "wired" toward homosexuality or not, the teaching regarding homosexuality in the bible is very clear.

This was kind of my point. We may disagree on what the Bible teaches, but it doesn't seem to depend on whether or not it's a choice.

**diachenko** · (This post was last modified: 01-31-2012 03:02 PM by diachenko.)

(01-31-2012 09:45 AM)greg Wrote: Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example ot those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdomof God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders."

1 Corinthians 6: 18 "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

Romans 1:24 "Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another."

Romans 1:26 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations withh women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Romans 1:28 "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."

Romans 1:32 "Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Genesis 18:20 Then the Lord said "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous,"

Whether someone is "wired" toward homosexuality or not, the teaching regarding homosexuality in the bible is very clear.

Hey, thanks for all those verses! No one has ever pointed them out before. I had NO idea they existed, and I bet my gay brothers and sisters didn't either. Big Grin

**RobMille** · 01-31-2012, 06:29 PM

It sure seems like this same thread has happened 20 times and the same tired rhetoric gets pummeled every time. If you think being gay is such an awful win, you should consider 1) not being gay, and 2) leaving the people that are gay be. God never gave the church the responsibility to identify other peoples sins and decry them.

Tchaiko · 02-01-2012, 11:03 AM

(01-31-2012 06:29 PM)RobMille Wrote: It sure seems like this same thread has happened 20 times and the same tired rhetoric gets pummeled every time.

You've noticed that, too?? Big Grin

(01-31-2012 06:29 PM)RobMille Wrote: If you think being gay is such an awful win. . . .

Well. . . Idk if he thinks it's a win. . . I mean, I do, but I don't think that's the general consensus. . . Angel

Shoes · 02-01-2012, 11:31 AM

(01-31-2012 06:29 PM)RobMille Wrote: If you think being gay is such an awful win. . . .

Tchaiko Wrote:Well. . . Idk if he thinks it's a win. . . I mean, I do, but I don't think that's the general consensus. .

I LOL’ed at that. I was like wait that makes no sense … then I noticed the proximity of the W and the S and it all made sense. Still got a chuckle out of it.

Gay, uhhh … Winning [somehow having Charlie sheen saying this makes it more funny in my mind]

elfdream · (This post was last modified: 02-01-2012 11:55 AM by elfdream.)

There was a guy who lived down the street from us. I went to school with him. He was always different. He liked to dress up in girl's clothes when we were little. He liked to bake and helped teach the baton twirlers how to do their thing... and when he got older organized locale beauty pageants. He hung out with us girls.

As an adult I moved away from the area for a while but eventually moved back. Someone asked "Have you heard about X? He's moved to DC and is living with a guy.

I can't say I was really all that surprised but the thing is the guy was like this when we were small children.

This always went against what I was taught in fundy church which which was was being homosexual was a conscience choice of a rational person. This guy was a kid when I first knew him and he was always consistent with his behavior throughout his life.

Catholicism recognizes that some people are born with same sex tendencies. I agreed. How could I not? I had seen it first hand.

It is how people CHOOSE to live their lives after coming to that realization that is the debate...one which has been argued to many times and will not resolved here to everyone's satisfaction but the fact that they 'are' a certain way should no longer be an issue.

lucrezaborgia · (This post was last modified: 02-01-2012 02:23 PM by lucrezaborgia.)

(02-01-2012 11:52 AM)elfdream Wrote: It is how people CHOOSE to live their lives after coming to that realization that is the debate...one which has been argued to many times and will not resolved here to everyone's satisfaction but the fact that they 'are' a certain way should no longer be an issue.

There is a good blog that I can't for the life of me find at the moment...it's about a guy who used to be the head of an ex-gay ministry who is coming to grips with the reality that he will never change orientation...but now he has a wife and kids to look after and the wife knows that he is still attracted to men. Then again, I've heard over and over via fundamentalism that marriage isn't supposed to be about being happy so who cares right?

Edited to add:

Quote:There was a guy who lived down the street from us. I went to school with him. He was always different. He liked to dress up in girl's clothes when we were little. He liked to bake and helped teach the baton twirlers how to do their thing... and when he got older organized locale beauty pageants. He hung out with us girls.

This isn't definitive homosexual behavior. Lots of hetero people are non-gender conformist. A lot of fundamentalist practices seem intent on treating people as mere cogs in the wheel and anyone that does not fit into the approved cog forms is discarded and expected to be allowed to be reformed into the approved cog form. Unfortunately, that's a very bad way to view humanity. The breadth of the human experience is so vast that the approved cog forms of fundamentalism don't even come close to being reality.

Also...found the blog:

http://www.gracerivers.com/blog/

elfdream · 02-01-2012, 02:24 PM

(02-01-2012 02:10 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote:
(02-01-2012 11:52 AM)elfdream Wrote: It is how people CHOOSE to live their lives after coming to that realization that is the debate...one which has been argued to many times and will not resolved here to everyone's satisfaction but the fact that they 'are' a certain way should no longer be an issue.

There is a good blog that I can't for the life of me find at the moment...it's about a guy who used to be the head of an ex-gay ministry who is coming to grips with the reality that he will never change orientation...but now he has a wife and kids to look after and the wife knows that he is still attracted to men. Then again, I've heard over and over via fundamentalism that marriage isn't supposed to be about being happy so who cares right?

Edited to add:

Quote:There was a guy who lived down the street from us. I went to school with him. He was always different. He liked to dress up in girl's clothes when we were little. He liked to bake and helped teach the baton twirlers how to do their thing... and when he got older organized locale beauty pageants. He hung out with us girls.

This isn't definitive homosexual behavior. Lots of hetero people are non-gender conformist.

Also...found the blog:

http://www.gracerivers.com/blog/

That's true about the non-conformist thing. Eddie Izzard calls it being a male tomboy. Wink

But for this guy it went beyond that.

Donb123 · 02-01-2012, 02:36 PM

(02-01-2012 02:10 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote: This isn't definitive homosexual behavior. Lots of hetero people are non-gender conformist. A lot of fundamentalist practices seem intent on treating people as mere cogs in the wheel and anyone that does not fit into the approved cog forms is discarded and expected to be allowed to be reformed into the approved cog form. Unfortunately, that's a very bad way to view humanity. The breadth of the human experience is so vast that the approved cog forms of fundamentalism don't even come close to being reality.

That's not just fundamentalist thinking though. Certainly people don't always fit the norms and should never be treated as less-than-human and sadly that is often a fundamentalist failing. People get rather offended by the notion of norms and stereotypes but in a lot of cases they exist for a reason.

"Non-gender conformist" behavior like what elfdream mention is atypical enough that it stuck in her mind. This happened for a reason- the reason being that she's not inherently gender-biased but that it was not stereotypical "boy behavior."

Certainly some things are societal pressures and environmental factors that influence our behaviors. There are some things that are just more male and some that are more female based on averages and norms and the like. For example, my daughters are more emotional, whiney at times, and will cry when they're tired, upset, frustrated. My nephews on the other hand will become more angry or secluded.