Babies

[Historian]

This is a question for everyone who believes in soverign election. If you don't please don't insult the rest of us or argue about election here. There are plenty of other threads for that, and you can start as many more as you'd like.

I'm interested in how many would say that all unborn or infant children who die are saved; how many would say that they are elected and may or may not; or any kind of third position. I'd also really appreciate knowing why you believe what you do.

[Darren]

I don't know if "saved" is the right word, but a baby has never had the opportunity to consciously reject God, and since God certainly knew the child would die, then I have no problem including them in what I believe to be God's election process. I don't really have any scripture to support what I believe, but I believe it makes sense.

I heard secondhand (I never heard him actually say it) that a certain prof at my Fundy U (this prof certainly did not believe in sovereign election) actually believed that since babies die in sin that they go to hell.

[leaving]

I'm not a Calvinist, not Reformed, not Sovereign Grace, whatever you want to call it to make those who believe it feel better about it.

However, when I had my miscarriage, the people who believed the above-mentioned doctrines told me a mixture of a few different things. The first group told me that my baby went to hell because it never had a chance to be saved. The second group told me I would need to trust God to "do right", as in, if my baby was elected, he would go to heaven, if he was not elected, he would go to hell even though he'd never been born and never sinned, and that what God ordained was right. I mean, how sick and disgusting is that?

[Darrell]

Quote:I'm interested in how many would say that all unborn or infant children who die are saved; how many would say that they are elected and may or may not; or any kind of third position. I'd also really appreciate knowing why you believe what you do.

I don't know. The Bible doesn't definitively say one way or the other and the rest is just guess work.

I can only say that I believe that the righteous Judge of all the earth will do right. We have no other hope than this.

[redhot]

When my mom miscarried, my dad told us that the baby was in heaven, based on 2 Samuel 12:23. David's son died as a result of his sin, and he said, "...but now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." I guess the thinking was that David believed he would see his son again.

[elfdream]

We leave them in the hands of a merciful God.

[Darrell]

(07-02-2012 07:41 AM)redhot Wrote:  I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." I guess the thinking was that David believed he would see his son again.

Or David could just be saying "I'll join him in the grave someday."

The OT Hebrew concept of the afterlife isn't exactly the same as ours today.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(07-01-2012 11:39 PM)Historian Wrote:  This is a question for everyone who believes in soverign election. If you don't please don't insult the rest of us or argue about election here. There are plenty of other threads for that, and you can start as many more as you'd like.

I'm interested in how many would say that all unborn or infant children who die are saved; how many would say that they are elected and may or may not; or any kind of third position. I'd also really appreciate knowing why you believe what you do.

I believe my babies are in heaven because to believe otherwise is unbearable.

[JoeR]

No one I know that has actually lost one of their own children believes that infants go to hell. Find me someone who has lost an infant child, and who also goes around saying that babies go to hell.

[Lady Julian]

(07-02-2012 07:13 AM)Darren Wrote:  I heard secondhand (I never heard him actually say it) that a certain prof at my Fundy U (this prof certainly did not believe in sovereign election) actually believed that since babies die in sin that they go to hell.

Yes, I have also heard this position, though, oddly enough, from a PCA church I attended when I was in grad school, not from a fundy church (I have a habit of picking bad churches.)

At BJU, one of my English professors believed the opposite: that God would cover the babies with His grace through Christ, since the children had never had an opportunity for belief. This belief seems more in line with the God who said, "Let the little children come unto me," I think. The first is just awful, justice with no chance for grace.