(03-03-2011 02:58 PM)exIFB Wrote:
(03-03-2011 02:28 PM)greg Wrote: I must say you are surprising me, you usually stand up for the Word of God, and have, what I thought was a good understanding of it. You sound quite abit like someone else here (who shall remain nameless) that picks and chooses what they want to believe from scriptures. Our bible teaches "clearly" that there is a heaven to gain and a Hell to shun, I sound like a fundy preacher now, but anyway surely you must know this!
I will tell you and all who read this, that there are mountains of scripture to support a literal, burning, awful, terrifying, everlasting Hell, there is no ambiguity whatsoever, and again I'm shocked you didn't know this.
I know what I was taught at my evangelical church and my fundy church. I don't see mountains of evidence to support eternal torment. I see two verses in revelation. In the Old Testament I see eternal death, and destruction from his presence. I see the saints in Isaiah looking upon dead carcasses (not living people). I see the wicked being consumed by his wrath. I am not denying the existence of hell, I am just considering the possibility that the punishing and torment is not eternal.
I also differentiate between Heaven, Paradise, Hell and the Lake of Fire. Always have. Heaven is eternal, Paradise was temporal. Hell is temporal and the Lake of Fire, in my previous understanding, was eternal. People are in hell now (ie, the Rich man), but they will be brought up out of hell, judged according to their works and thrown into the lake of fire- this is the second death.
But all I said was there was nothing in those verse you posted that said that the Lake of Fire was eternal torment. So I would say there are two "clear" verses that do teach this, in revelation, and one could argue that the only people eternally tormented are those that worship the beast and take his mark. The other verses in scripture could be understood to be everlasting destruction with fire. Suffering and then extinction. I'm not saying I believe in annihilation. I am just being honest about where I am at right now.
Ok, now you're starting to sound like the exIFB I have come to know, yes the distinctions you made about Paradise, Hell and the Lake of Fire are legit, I would disagree with you about how many references there are though.