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**Tiarali** · (This post was last modified: 03-17-2012 12:12 AM by Tiarali.)

I think any time you have to tell a woman to stay with a marriage for the sake of the kids, it's because there is no marriage to speak of. Otherwise, there would be other reasons to try and make it work.

It really sucks that a man is supposed to get away with stealing thousands of dollars of family funds to fuel his porn addiction while treating his wife like crap just because he has a penis. That's a good example to teach the kids.

The wife is supposed to suck it up, stay, and pretend to be happy with her life because she doesn't.

notdrinkingthekoolaid · (This post was last modified: 03-17-2012 12:15 AM by notdrinkingthekoolaid.)

@ Harry:

I think you missed my point.

She asked for a woman's point of view on this particular issue and that's what I gave her. I clearly stated that the following was from my point of view and no one else's. I wasn't presuming to speak for all people everywhere or make a blanket statement for all sin that could ever be committed. In my opinion, porn or an affair...BOTH are destructive to a marriage.

**Sharon** · 03-17-2012, 05:39 AM

(03-16-2012 09:42 PM)redhot Wrote: 1. I do not have children
2. I do not know if he is an addict, although some months he was spending more than $200 per day.
3. If he is a "sex addict" he should not be turning me down for sex.
4. I still don't know if he had sex with anyone else, although he did admit asking a co-worker and when she refused, he offered to pay her. She still turned him down.
5. Speaking only for myself, I think I would rather that he had been meeting someone, dinner, sex, etc. At least I might understand that there was an emotional connection, mutual attraction, etc. The fact that he chose to engage in live, online chat, where she would perform whatever he told her to do, to me seems pretty one-sided and selfish, especially since I was "right there" all along, and he chose them over me.
6. Knowing that he has been doing this for almost 2 years, I can't imagine that I could ever be with him and feel like he was not comparing me to "LOVES 2 69". I'm not a prude, and am pretty willing to... whatever, but whatever we do should be out of mutual desire, not because he made her do it and wants to try it with me.
7. I'm curious how others, particularly women, feel about whether porn (live chat, not a few dirty magazines) is as bad/worse/better than an actual physical affair.

My first marriage failed due in large part to my ex husband's taste in porn. (Not that he viewed porn at all, but the type of porn was unacceptable. He went from regular porn women to women-with-animals to gay bondage porn. In my case, it was where he ended up that made me call it. His need to control his partner [me] was the most important aspect of his sexual excitement.) I'm telling you this because:

I find the live online chat described above pretty disturbing. I realise I may be over-reacting because of the experience I outlined above, but that's one of the most dehumanizing things I could imagine. I am seeing a need to control his partner (LOVE 2 69) that is creeping me out way way more than looking at boobies on the internet.

~~Persnickety Polecat~~ · 03-17-2012, 07:51 AM

(03-16-2012 11:18 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote:
(03-16-2012 09:45 PM)sandee Wrote: How about would I rather my spouse (1) have a one night stand or (2) drain my family financially and emotionally with years of daily porn usage?

A one night stand is not the same as an ongoing affair is not the same as porn usage- yet they are all cheating.

What is your definition of cheating that allows porn to fall into that category?

Having emotional or sexual needs that should be met within the marriage being met *outside of the marriage. If a man or woman is substituting porn for sex and ignoring the needs of his or her partner, imo, that is cheating. PARTICULARLY when, as in this case, thousands of dollars have been taken from the family to subsidize it.

~~Persnickety Polecat~~ · 03-17-2012, 07:54 AM

(03-17-2012 12:12 AM)tiarali Wrote: I think any time you have to tell a woman to stay with a marriage for the sake of the kids, it's because there is no marriage to speak of.

Yes -- exactly.

Ricardo · 03-17-2012, 08:50 AM

The problem with marriage and divorce is the guilt-loaded "'till death us do part."

If this were a business transaction, a business agreement, (which it partly is,) there is clearly a broken promise. Yes, we will do our utmost to stick together "in sickness and in health. for richer or for poorer."

BUT once a problem has been identified, there have to be an effort at mending the relationship. The relationship was not broken eight weeks ago, by the wife. Instead, the relationship was broken two years ago by the husband. For two years he has refused to confront his wife, settle their differences, and instead has engaged in deception and destructive behaviors.

It is so typical of IFB thought patterns to hone in on the visible act of "walking out" as the cause of the break.

No. $200/day of porn charges say differently. I'm not even talking about whether Porn is or is not sin. What I'm getting at is the fact that every day this man consciously broke his relationship promises AND spent money he knew was not his, for this purpose.

Framing this situation as "...one day the wife walked out and broke her marriage vows..." is egregiously wrong. And yet, the effort of most religiously-based counselors will be to get them back together.

The trust has been broken. two years of lies. two years of squandering limited resources. It is up to him to figure out IF he wants to repair this relationship, take responsibility for his actions, offer reparations AND do whatever it takes to win her back.

It appears as though he is talking through his lawyer, instead.

Not a good sign.

notdrinkingthekoolaid · 03-17-2012, 09:31 AM

Bravo, Ricardo!

Harry Seaward · 03-17-2012, 02:06 PM

(03-17-2012 12:12 AM)tiarali Wrote: I think any time you have to tell a woman to stay with a marriage for the sake of the kids, it's because there is no marriage to speak of. Otherwise, there would be other reasons to try and make it work.

It really sucks that a man is supposed to get away with stealing thousands of dollars of family funds to fuel his porn addiction while treating his wife like crap just because he has a penis. That's a good example to teach the kids.

The wife is supposed to suck it up, stay, and pretend to be happy with her life because she doesn't.

I don't know if this is to me, but I never said "stay together for the kids". I'm saying if there are no kids, who cares what you do? If you don't like the way the other person brushes their teeth, get out if you want.

If there are kids involved, however, you owe it to them and the rest of society to make an honest effort to keep the family together. If it won't work, fine, make the break, but the irreparable harm everyone keeps throwing around really only affects the kids.

And since when is this about men vs. women? Women never stray or do things that disrupt marital harmony? It's never 100% one persons fault. Ever. Most of the time, both sides play fairly equal roles when things fall apart.

Harry Seaward · 03-17-2012, 02:08 PM

(03-17-2012 12:14 AM)notdrinkingthekoolaid Wrote: @ Harry:

I think you missed my point.

She asked for a woman's point of view on this particular issue and that's what I gave her. I clearly stated that the following was from my point of view and no one else's. I wasn't presuming to speak for all people everywhere or make a blanket statement for all sin that could ever be committed. In my opinion, porn or an affair...BOTH are destructive to a marriage.

I understand you see porn as damaging to a marriage. Fair enough. I'm challenging your claim that you see them as equally damaging. I don't think you really believe this because it defies all logic.

Harry Seaward · 03-17-2012, 02:19 PM

(03-17-2012 07:51 AM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:
(03-16-2012 11:18 PM)Harry Seaward Wrote: What is your definition of cheating that allows porn to fall into that category?

Having emotional or sexual needs that should be met within the marriage being met *outside of the marriage. If a man or woman is substituting porn for sex and ignoring the needs of his or her partner, imo, that is cheating. PARTICULARLY when, as in this case, thousands of dollars have been taken from the family to subsidize it.

So you believe masturbation to be cheating also?