Birthers' day in court - Printable Version
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Birthers' day in court - Donb123 - 01-22-2012 05:24 PM
Backstory on this-
Orly Taitz is the queen bee of "birther" attorneys.
Every single instance, thus far, when someone questioned Obama's birth certificate or his status as "natural born citizen" they were denied on procedural grounds- "standing" and the like.
So the "birther" types kept plodding along. 3-4 years later they finally get some traction. There was one case that was severed into three in Georgia in an attempt to deny Obama on the presidential ticket for the state of Georgia.
Now Obama is being ordered to show up by a federal judge. The judge ordered discovery and I *think* that they are to have one specialist to show that the purported birth certificate is a fraud. There is supposed to be another 1 or more specialists who show that Obama has used multiple social security numbers in his adult life- none of which are his. The one that he currently uses is alleged to belong to a dead white guy from Connecticut. Allegedly they recently ran the SSN through the employer E-Verify and it showed it to not belong to Obama. There will be another witness who used to work for vital records from the state of Hawaii who will attest that there is no birth certificate for Obama in Hawaii. Other evidence will be his book that attests his father was a Kenyan citizen and this is what some of the plaintiffs use to argue the "natural born citizen" angle.
A little deeper back story. The birther types who argue "natural born citizen" and skip the whole birth certificate deal say that there is a distinct difference between "native born" and "natural born". The argument is like this- the US Constitution mentions, in several places, "The Law of Nations" which is a book by Vattel published in 1758. In it Vattel defines a "natural born citizen" as a citizen with two native parents. Further, a US Supreme Court ruling in 1875 Minor vs Happersett declared that children born to two citizen parents were "natural born citizens".
I'm a bit of a newshound so this whole story has been fascinating in that it won't go away. It's never actually gone to trial on the merits anywhere so the birthers persist because they feel they've never had the matter tested. This particular hearing isn't a criminal or civil trial but will use it's findings to refer the matter to the GA Secretary of State.
I'm obviously not in a position to know (and I don't claim to know nor believe one way or the other as I cannot) whether any of this has merit or not. Obviously if the SSN's are fraudulent, etc, then it should be an easy case. Or perhaps people just hate Obama so much they make this stuff up. We shall see Thursday.
RE: Birthers' day in court - RobMille - 01-22-2012 07:02 PM
Orly Taitz is deranged. That a court would give her the time of day explains a lot of why courts are overloaded.
RE: Birthers' day in court - Donb123 - 01-22-2012 07:20 PM
Orly is truly an eccentric and odd bird.
RE: Birthers' day in court - Tiarali - 01-22-2012 08:59 PM
A stopped clock is right twice a day.
I'm not taking sides on the issue, but arguing that someone is eccentric so they can't possibly have a case sounds a bit like saying that someone is bitter so they can't possibly have genuine concerns about the way their church is acting.
Actually, I'm really not taking sides, but I'd read about this years ago and thought it all just got swept under the rug, which kind of gave it a little bit of credence. If Obama was genuine, wouldn't the easiest thing be to have a highly publicised court case, prove the matter once and for all, and make a laughing stock of the birthers? I'm not really interested in politics, but this is the sort of story I enjoy watching play out. I'll be very interested to see the outcome.
RE: Birthers' day in court - Presbygirl - 01-22-2012 09:31 PM
Yes, Tiarali, I agree. I'm no "birther" that's for sure, but I've always wondered why Obama hasn't just silenced people from the get go with, " you're kidding me right?" "Here's my birth certificate and my ss card." There. done.
RE: Birthers' day in court - Mommy2Kids - 01-22-2012 10:58 PM
I only have one question. If Obama's birth certificate is authentic, and he is a native or natural born citizen (or whatever), why has he spent over a million dollars out of his own pocket in legal fees to keep it private?
RE: Birthers' day in court - squiz - 01-23-2012 11:23 AM
(01-22-2012 09:31 PM)Presbygirl Wrote: Yes, Tiarali, I agree. I'm no "birther" that's for sure, but I've always wondered why Obama hasn't just silenced people from the get go with, " you're kidding me right?" "Here's my birth certificate and my ss card." There. done.
I thought he did.
Even if they were faked, the birth notices in the papers (on microfilm in the state libraries) are pretty strong evidence.
I really don't understand the obsessive hatred of Obama among certain elements in the US. Although not everyone who has been caught up in the birther whirlwind is such, I suspect that a lot of this movement had its origin in a racist fear of "the other". I suspect that a lot of the weird accusations that he is some sort of closet Muslim, are really code, because people aren't allowed to use the "N" word any more.
As for him being a socialist, on most issues, he is to the right of the Social Democrats in Germany, or Labour in Britain or Australia, let alone a true socialist party. It really is all quite bizarre.
RE: Birthers' day in court - redbeardiam - 01-23-2012 12:47 PM
The release of his birth certificate last year resulted in exactly 0 birthers being convinced that he was born in the U.S. (OK, so that's not a scientific survey, just my general impression.) That was enough to prove to me that those who ascribe to this theory will absolutely never be satisfied no matter what evidence is released, because any evidence *could* be faked. Therefore I don't blame Obama for doing his best to ignore it.
RE: Birthers' day in court - Donb123 - 01-23-2012 04:10 PM
(01-23-2012 11:23 AM)squiz Wrote:(01-22-2012 09:31 PM)Presbygirl Wrote: Yes, Tiarali, I agree. I'm no "birther" that's for sure, but I've always wondered why Obama hasn't just silenced people from the get go with, " you're kidding me right?" "Here's my birth certificate and my ss card." There. done.
I have no doubt that there are racists who hate Obama. He's half black so maybe some people that hate Blacks hate him. He's half white so maybe some Blacks hate him.
Suggesting that "fear" or "race" is a reason is just something you cannot know. Pulling out the race card is usually what people who cannot win an argument do. Unless someone is blatantly racist it's best not to bandy about the term because it makes the accuser look like they have something to hide or be afraid of themselves.
RE: Birthers' day in court - myotch - 01-23-2012 04:15 PM
I'm no birther. I believe that, no matter where Obama was born, his mom is an American citizen, and conferred to him his rights as an American when she gave birth. I kinda look at birthers as on would look at any other conspiracy theorist.
I'm surprised, though, about the birth certificate that BO put out, and the commentary on it from several technicians, including an Adobe executive. Prior to that, I was concerned about Obama's silence on the subject, while his attack-dog media cadre ran the birthers through a protracted group-character assassination.
And his Connecticut SSN raises my eyebrows.
Maybe he actually has something to hide?
Either way, it would be nice to put this issue to bed.