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+--- Thread: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. (/showthread.php?tid=3451)
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - C_Fresh - 01-20-2012 08:48 AM
I could probably use a good makeover. Sign me up! I've only got a shoestring budget to work with though.
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - Tonx - 01-20-2012 11:40 AM
I don't really get this whole "gay lifestyle" thing. What exactly IS the "gay lifestyle?" I look at a gay couple that I'm friends with, and their lifestyle includes travelling, going out to bars on the weekend, playing video games, going out to movies, working at the Tim Horton's, playing with their rabbit Jubbs... Um, that sounds pretty much like the "heterosexual lifestyle." What?
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - squiz - 01-20-2012 12:28 PM
(01-18-2012 10:00 AM)Darrell Wrote:Quote:At what point do we accept that these urges are God-given?
As I've said elsewhere, just because something occurs naturally doesn't give it immediate moral standing. People are born with all kinds of predispositions to do all kinds of things. We have to judge each on its own merits. But saying something is God-given merely because it happens on its own is a bit of a leap.
Especially when a couple thousand years of church teaching about the interpretation of relevant Scriptures say otherwise.
And just why should these Scriptures have any authority in ethical matters, or be taken as evidence of what is God-given and what is not, even if backed up by 2000 years of traditional interpretation?
BTW. Check out this link for another take on biblical marriage: http://robertcargill.com/2011/10/11/what-exactly-is-biblical-marriage/
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - lucrezaborgia - 01-20-2012 01:56 PM
(01-20-2012 12:33 AM)myotch Wrote: It would take a federal law to compel the all the states to recognize homosexual marriage, which is, of course, the crux of the federal argument. Up until now, marriage and family law has been the domain of state law. Does bringing in the power of new federal law expand or diminish the cause of liberty? Of states rights?
I have said where gays have children, they should have tax benefits. I would also add other benefits. I believe that for couples living together, too. I will add that procreation and adoption is not a reasonable assumption for a gay couple-ship as it is for heterosexual marriages.
All it would take is a mandate that marriage not be limited to heterosexual couples. Then all the regular marriage laws would apply. It's not all that complicated unless you think of the 14th amendment as a pesky rodent that should be eliminated from the constitution.
The problem with the second part is that none of these benefits are available unless you are married. You seem to balk at forcing states to change marriage laws to include homosexuals, yet you seem to imply that they should change all the other laws to make it so that they are equal to marriage while not being married. Isn't that a more complicated solution than simply applying the 14th amendment???
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - lucrezaborgia - 01-20-2012 02:00 PM
(01-20-2012 07:28 AM)Scorpio Wrote:(01-19-2012 06:06 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote: ..."here come the gays and they are out to get you!!"....
That's right. And when they get you they're going to re-arrange your furniture and change your wardrobe. We cannot allow that to happen!
My aunt calls them DINKs. Double-income, no kids. They moved into bad neighborhoods in Miami and cleaned them up and once they were all nice and shiny started getting kids.
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - Tchaiko - 01-20-2012 02:42 PM
(01-20-2012 08:48 AM)C_Fresh Wrote: I could probably use a good makeover. Sign me up! I've only got a shoestring budget to work with though.
Ok. I'll need to know what you're going to be dressing for, your general style, and your hair and eye color.
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - Tchaiko - 01-20-2012 02:59 PM
(01-20-2012 11:40 AM)Tonx Wrote: I don't really get this whole "gay lifestyle" thing. What exactly IS the "gay lifestyle?" I look at a gay couple that I'm friends with, and their lifestyle includes travelling, going out to bars on the weekend, playing video games, going out to movies, working at the Tim Horton's, playing with their rabbit Jubbs... Um, that sounds pretty much like the "heterosexual lifestyle." What?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/domenick-scudera/my-gay-lifestyle_b_1063570.html
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - Tonx - 01-20-2012 03:13 PM
(01-20-2012 02:59 PM)Tchaiko Wrote:(01-20-2012 11:40 AM)Tonx Wrote: I don't really get this whole "gay lifestyle" thing. What exactly IS the "gay lifestyle?" I look at a gay couple that I'm friends with, and their lifestyle includes travelling, going out to bars on the weekend, playing video games, going out to movies, working at the Tim Horton's, playing with their rabbit Jubbs... Um, that sounds pretty much like the "heterosexual lifestyle." What?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/domenick-scudera/my-gay-lifestyle_b_1063570.html
Ha, that's awesome!
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - Ricardo - 01-20-2012 06:56 PM
"Especially when a couple thousand years of church teaching about the interpretation of relevant Scriptures say otherwise."
How many hundreds/thousands of years did we have the doxology at the end of the Lord's prayer? For that matter, how many years did we have the Johannine Comma?
Which of the 30 or so English translations of MALAKOS (1Cor6have you decided is God's single interpretation?
"Effeminate" (1611 KJV, 1833 Webster, 1898 Young, 1901 ASV. Also NASB, & YLT)
“male prostitutes" (1973 NIV, IBS, NRSV, 2000 HNV, NLT, HCST)
“those who make women of themselves” 1884 Darby
"any who are guilty of unnatural crime" 1909 Weymouth
"less than a man" 1965 BBE
"sexual perverts" 1947 RSV
“catamite” Jerusalem Bible
“homosexual” NKJV
"practicing homosexuals" NAB, 2001 ESV
Footnote: “Customer of a boy prostitute.” NAB
“those who use and abuse each other” 1993 The Message
“Those who participate in Homosexuality" 1954 AB
“Pervert” 1995 CEV
“Men who act like women” 1969 NLV
Versions from http://www.blueletterbible.org and http://www.biblegateway.net
As you can see, good solid scholars, interpreters have not come to agreement.
Which translation of MALAKOS would you choose from the above list? Based on what?
I repeat your quote:
"Especially when a couple thousand years of church teaching about the interpretation of relevant Scriptures say otherwise."
I warn you. I've looked into this. We can't depend on one or another dictionary or lexicon to give us "THE TRUTH." In some cases, such as MALAKOS, all we can do is guess at what Paul meant. And those guesses are influenced by our culture, our background and our prejudices. Except me, of course.
RE: I'm Christian, unless you're gay. - greg - 01-21-2012 09:29 AM
(01-20-2012 06:56 PM)Ricardo Wrote: "Especially when a couple thousand years of church teaching about the interpretation of relevant Scriptures say otherwise."
How many hundreds/thousands of years did we have the doxology at the end of the Lord's prayer? For that matter, how many years did we have the Johannine Comma?
Which of the 30 or so English translations of MALAKOS (1Cor6have you decided is God's single interpretation?
"Effeminate" (1611 KJV, 1833 Webster, 1898 Young, 1901 ASV. Also NASB, & YLT)
“male prostitutes" (1973 NIV, IBS, NRSV, 2000 HNV, NLT, HCST)
“those who make women of themselves” 1884 Darby
"any who are guilty of unnatural crime" 1909 Weymouth
"less than a man" 1965 BBE
"sexual perverts" 1947 RSV
“catamite” Jerusalem Bible
“homosexual” NKJV
"practicing homosexuals" NAB, 2001 ESV
Footnote: “Customer of a boy prostitute.” NAB
“those who use and abuse each other” 1993 The Message
“Those who participate in Homosexuality" 1954 AB
“Pervert” 1995 CEV
“Men who act like women” 1969 NLV
Versions from http://www.blueletterbible.org and http://www.biblegateway.net
As you can see, good solid scholars, interpreters have not come to agreement.
Which translation of MALAKOS would you choose from the above list? Based on what?
I repeat your quote:
"Especially when a couple thousand years of church teaching about the interpretation of relevant Scriptures say otherwise."
I warn you. I've looked into this. We can't depend on one or another dictionary or lexicon to give us "THE TRUTH." In some cases, such as MALAKOS, all we can do is guess at what Paul meant. And those guesses are influenced by our culture, our background and our prejudices. Except me, of course.
You went to some trouble to prove a point, and it appears to me that you actually "defeated" yourself! Context Ricardo, Context! Not just in this passage (1 Cor 6) but the entire context of the entire bible, beginning in Genesis with the creation account of Adam and Eve all the way to the destruction of San Franci.........er.........Sodom and Gomorrah to numerous passages all through the New Testament. May I yell??? There is no ambiguity regarding the wickedness of homosexuality in the bible none!!!!!!!!!! Some are involved in a discussion about the morality of God in another thread, they are discussing the OT God compared to Jesus and the NT God, I have laid off of that thread, may jump in at some point, but an intelligent, for the most part conversation is going on, with several different opinions, I would submit there is some ambiguity there. In another thread which so far I have stayed out of, but certainly have enjoyed reading the thoughts on is the "What are your thoughts" Some very good, honest questions were asked by dthatcher, some of these questions were "wrestled" with by several, PW posted a great comment today, which I mostly agree with (seldom disagree with this wonderful lady) however, if you had a different opinion and expressed that opinion, fine, I believe there is some ambiguity there. But not as it relates to homosexuality!!! There is simply no question about homosexuality, that is if you believe the bible!! I pm'd you about this in the past, so don't know if I will be responding to anything you say back, at least not in the forum, but I know you do have some biblical education, but I seriously would put it to better use. Attempting to "make" God's Word say something that it clearly does not, is not helping anyone. Btw, ref to the PM (above) note I have not engaged you on anything for awhile, but I don't want folks who are seriously searching for answers to hard questions to be led astray by someone who appears to have some biblical understanding. We have at least a few homosexuals who come here regularly, I have no doubt that some of them love the Lord, and are attempting to honor Him with their lives, putting downright "wrong" information on here, from someone that appears to have some "education" simply does not help them.