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RE: The WILDS camp - Tony Mel - 01-11-2011 06:09 PM
(01-11-2011 05:28 PM)Apostrophil Wrote: Oh, the stick in the fire ceremony...there is so much pressure put on the campers to go with their whole cabin to the back of the building to prove that there is nothing between their souls and the Savior. A couple of times one of my campers refused to get up with the rest of us when it was our time to go to the back. So she sat there all alone, and everyone knew what a horrible rebel she was. Talk about peer pressure. =(
I hoped and wished every Friday night that I would be needed to counsel campers outside while everyone else was inside throwing sticks in the fire. I hated that service.
Talking about counseling campers.. were you also given that tree diagram and told that you had to use it when counseling? Did you ever circle the "bad fruits" that your camper indicated?
RE: The WILDS camp - Apostrophil - 01-11-2011 07:46 PM
Oh yeah. I feel like the tree diagram is the summation of their counseling philosophy. My first summer when I was a waitress, I relied heavily on it when I counseled campers (and myself--that was interesting). I think I just had campers tell me the "bad fruits" that were in their lives and counseled the "most damaging" one they listed. Thankfully, this past summer I had gained enough confidence and sense to use the Bible more than that counseling guide.
For anyone who hasn't had the unique experience of Wilds'-style counseling, the tree diagram is their main counseling tool. It is an illustration of a tree to illustrate the idea that, in their words, "You do what you do, and you say what you say, because you think what you think. You think what you think because you believe what you believe about God, about His word, and about yourself." The tree illustration was divided in half, with "bad fruits" (lying, stealing, immorality) on one side, and "good fruits" (patience, bold witness, unselfishness) on the other. Therefore the counselor could illustrate to the camper that he kept lying because he did not believe God is Truth, she struggled with pure thoughts because she did not truly believe that God is Pure, and so on.
I'm still trying to sort out the mess in my head (courtesy of Fundyland) and would appreciate what other people have to say about this way of counseling.
RE: The WILDS camp - wannabe exfundy - 01-12-2011 07:34 AM
(01-11-2011 07:46 PM)Apostrophil Wrote: Oh yeah. I feel like the tree diagram is the summation of their counseling philosophy. My first summer when I was a waitress, I relied heavily on it when I counseled campers (and myself--that was interesting). I think I just had campers tell me the "bad fruits" that were in their lives and counseled the "most damaging" one they listed. Thankfully, this past summer I had gained enough confidence and sense to use the Bible more than that counseling guide.
For anyone who hasn't had the unique experience of Wilds'-style counseling, the tree diagram is their main counseling tool. It is an illustration of a tree to illustrate the idea that, in their words, "You do what you do, and you say what you say, because you think what you think. You think what you think because you believe what you believe about God, about His word, and about yourself." The tree illustration was divided in half, with "bad fruits" (lying, stealing, immorality) on one side, and "good fruits" (patience, bold witness, unselfishness) on the other. Therefore the counselor could illustrate to the camper that he kept lying because he did not believe God is Truth, she struggled with pure thoughts because she did not truly believe that God is Pure, and so on.
I'm still trying to sort out the mess in my head (courtesy of Fundyland) and would appreciate what other people have to say about this way of counseling.
I was given copies of the tree diagram too, as a camper though. While I agree our actions spring from heart issues I do think there are other factors in play--the parents we have, family issues, church, the company we keep, etc. For me, I struggled a lot with lonliness and depression and most "sinful" actions were a result of it. But according to the chart I had pride problems and tried to memorize scripture to overcome it and just felt more guilty.
RE: The WILDS camp - Tony Mel - 01-12-2011 11:04 AM
(01-11-2011 07:46 PM)Apostrophil Wrote: "You do what you do, and you say what you say, because you think what you think. You think what you think because you believe what you believe about God, about His word, and about yourself."
And it all came down to: Two choices on the shelf: Pleasing God or pleasing self. In their thinking, there is no way you can live for God and actually enjoy it.
RE: The WILDS camp - Clint - 01-12-2011 12:02 PM
(01-12-2011 11:04 AM)Tony Mel Wrote:(01-11-2011 07:46 PM)Apostrophil Wrote: "You do what you do, and you say what you say, because you think what you think. You think what you think because you believe what you believe about God, about His word, and about yourself."
And it all came down to: Two choices on the shelf: Pleasing God or pleasing self. In their thinking, there is no way you can live for God and actually enjoy it.
And it is disgustingly summarized in the chorus "Just Two Choices". That song makes me want to puke! (Didn't Collier from the WILDS write it?)
RE: The WILDS camp - captain_solo - 01-12-2011 12:51 PM
Yep, and their just two choices hogwash comes from none other than Jim Berg of BJU fame, and his false gospel of gnostic dualism disguised as the path to holy living.
Just two choices on the shelf, and that stupid white dog black dog illustration. He places the believer in the position of God but making it our role to change ourselves into the image of God, and makes it a black and white issue - there is no room for self.
Their whole mentality reeks of such putrid and unbiblical teaching - the problem is the man is so pedantic and long winded that its hard to grasp the totality of his point, so it seems intelligent and well constructed when in fact it is overwrought and full of self-exalting aggrandizement - I am sure it came in handy in the deans office though with all those kids getting shipped for not making their bed
In fact, I am pretty sure we could speak to a participant on this site for a more detailed explanation of what I am trying to get accross
http://www.drslewis.org/camille/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/growing-grace-or-killing-self.pdf
(01-11-2011 05:28 PM)Apostrophil Wrote: Oh, the stick in the fire ceremony...there is so much pressure put on the campers to go with their whole cabin to the back of the building to prove that there is nothing between their souls and the Savior. A couple of times one of my campers refused to get up with the rest of us when it was our time to go to the back. So she sat there all alone, and everyone knew what a horrible rebel she was. Talk about peer pressure. =(
I hoped and wished every Friday night that I would be needed to counsel campers outside while everyone else was inside throwing sticks in the fire. I hated that service.
I remember standing with my best friend in the middle back of an auditorium at another fundy camp - the two of us, with a handful of other kids standing across the whole place, the rest of the room had gone forward or back or wherever and were confessing their sins after a good ol fashioned shotgun sermon with a springboard scripture followed by a rant through the 8 great sins of teenagers and a high pressure invite. A sponsor came up and put his hand on our shoulders and asked if we would like to go forward. We said "no thanks"
Later I was a sponsor at the same camp, same speaker, same scenario, in fact I think he lip synced the sermon. They pulled me out to deal with kids and gave me 3 junior high boys - none of them had any idea why they went forward. You should have seen the look on the staff member's face when I gave him back empty decision cards and told him. Like I didn't do my job or something.
Later the sponsors from my church were talking and we had all felt like we needed to go forward, but none of us could put a finger on a reason, so we didn't. Kinda a revelation to me - and it has made me intensely protective of my kids, where they go, who preaches to them, and they get a firm debrief after anything that I might have even the slightest whiff of fundy from.
RE: The WILDS camp - AmazedByGrace - 01-13-2011 04:30 AM
So glad I didn't do much of this one even though my friends were scandalized I wasn't sending the kiddos to the Wilds Camp. I just think it's a big problem to have teenagers watching kids and teenagers. And I think it's wrong to pressure kids into decisions and cause them to doubt. They don't teach salvation as God's work--they just make it seem that it's all a human decision. Plus I knew the author of a lot of their "curriculum" and couldn't trust he and his wife who were prominent speakers every year. I really think this was an instance that the Holy Spirit ministered to me not to send the children, and I'm really glad we didn't.
RE: The WILDS camp - Tony Mel - 01-13-2011 07:31 AM
(01-13-2011 04:30 AM)AmazedByGrace Wrote: They don't teach salvation as God's work--they just make it seem that it's all a human decision.
You're right. They do! I do not know why sound, gospel-preaching churches still choose to support this backward camp.
RE: The WILDS camp - Clint - 01-13-2011 11:12 AM
That stick-burning ceremony is just like all the bad fundy camp traits rolled into one.
1) Emotional, end-of-the-week antics by a traveling salesman evangelist
2) Lots of weepy teens who've been primed all week to cave in to the peer pressure
3) Environment of no sleep and constant activity
4) Climactic, supposedly meaning-laden "decision"!
RE: The WILDS camp - Perry - 01-13-2011 01:40 PM
Wow... I'm glad I never had to go to this camp. My church owned and operated its own camp similar to this, but it was nowhere near as strict as this place sounds! I didn't even know this place existed... and I only live an hour away from it.