124 thoughts on “Gog and Magog Redux”

    1. And Magog were some seriously messed up aliens on Gene Roddenberry’s Amdromeda. They infest you with their offspring who would eat your insides after they hatched. So anytime I hear Magog mentioned, I think sci-fi.

      1. Ooh, I read that as a teenager! The part where the government processed bodies into food freaked me out for a long time!

      2. Wow, I didn’t know anyone else heard of him! When I was a kid our church library had some of his comic-type books and I used to devour those things.

    1. Mum just finished watching Left Behind. There are a couple of Christian apocalypse movies that I will still watch. Megiddo: The Omega Code 2 is fairly hokey but is well-enough put together as movies go. Six: The Mark Unleashed definitely has entertainment value. One of my favorites, even. The Moment After and its sequel are also not a bad watch if you can dissociate them from your fundy memories.

    2. I must be older than you. La Haye hadn’t started writing fiction until I was married and raising a family. When I was young it was Hal Lindsey’s _The Late, Great Planet Earth_, and those terrible ‘Thief in the Night’ movies.

      1. Hal Lindsey put dates on when all that dispensationalist stuff would happen– dates which have all gone by now. Last I heard, he had new dates, but I don’t think many are listening to him any more.

  1. Not sure I believe the candy/gov’t story – whether it’s true or not, I guess we are supposed to believe it and be shocked (just like the kids in the story) ๐Ÿ™‚

  2. It took fifteen seconds for him to say “Russia.” Actually longer than I would have expected.

    1. Correction: 13 seconds. Still longer than I would have expected. By the way, there’s a drinking game to be had here–a sip every time the word “Russia” is used.

      1. Old Forester has lots of benefits. It was my pleasure. As an aside, I didn’t make it to the end of the play. It’s a good show, but I think I have sand in my gas tank. I got too tired. I may go back Thursday for the second half.

  3. If you’re gonna focus on the uncertainty of what Gog & Magog are (or what they’re said to have done or will do), you’re never gonna make it in this industry my friends. ๐Ÿ™‚

  4. Oh gag.

    I have lived with this guff for 43 years. Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth converted my family from the Church of Christ and it’s a-millennialism to a Pre-trib rapture, literal 1000-year reign of Christ position. Along with once-saved-always-saved and a host of other fundamentalist beliefs.

    The point is that all of their prophetic nearness predictions have always been wrong. Always. ALWAYS. As with all of their doctrines, they cut, paste, rearrange, plagiarize, speculate and preach as if they had God in the Front Pew cheering them on.

    Did I say they were always wrong?

    Why, they can’t even get simple prophesies right. How about Matthew? There was a person who claimed prophesies where there were none. Easy to check. Incredibly easy to point out the errors, including geography. Or Ezekiel’s prophesy about Tyre? A big fail, only maintained as true in people’s imagination.

    The more I studied prophesy when I came out from fundamentalism, the more I realized it doesn’t work. Zeal aside, there is nothing there that actually works.

    I pay NO attention to prophesy any more. If God “fulfills” prophesy as He has in the past, He will seriously screw it up. “Prophetic Ministries” have been one big political scam for the last 50 years or so.

    1. Now it’s something about blood moons. At least that was what I gathered, on the phone with my Dad a couple months ago. Some video he’d been watching about a preacher he’d heard, and blood moons, and everything going on in Israel right now.

      Times never change.

  5. The national religion of ‘merica is Christianity.
    The national religions of South American countries is Catholicism.

    Catholicism is not Christianity, according to this Mensa candidate.

    And that national religion of Russia is communism. Hmm.

    What about that Russian Orthodox Church?

    1. Yeah, I was banging my head about that too. It shows a complete lack of the faintest clue about anything remotely having to do with Russia.

      (And I don’t believe the candy story either.)

    2. He does know the Soviet Union fell, right? It was in the newspapers. Kind of a big deal. Happened like twenty years ago. Russia hasn’t been communist since then.

    3. Russia is 46% Christian. 41% are Orthodox and 5% are other denominations. Russia is 13% athiest/non religious.

      By comparison, the USA is 73% Christian and 19% athiest/non religious.

      It took me two minutes to find this info on Wikipedia. Pastors – the internet can be your friend.

      That old “ask God for candy” story cones from the classic 60’s fundamentalist horror flick “If Footman Tire You” about the coming communist takeover of America. It’s on YouTube – countless fundy kids were forced to sit through it. I consider it abuse.

  6. Ok, I wanted to find Flint Hill Baptist Church’s website. What I did find was someone posting a question asking if this is a good church. Here was the response:

    YES YES YES….this is a good church with a wonderful man by the name of Marvin Blackburn. He’s a a man of God that stands firm on his church and he is a wonderful human being. He’s kind to all of his members and he don’t have his little groups like alot of churchs do. He believes in on e way to heaven and that’s thur the Lord Jesus Christ !! He has been a pastor a long time. He’s a good hard working man that has never done a harm thing that I know of. Take my word you would really enjoy hearing him preach. I know very well what I’m talking about. My grandfather built this church yrs ago. This is also Marvin’s grandfather for I’m isi cousin. Don’t get me wrong I’m just not saying these words cause we kin to each other, but you’ll find out what kind of man he is with just one visit, Take care and May God Bless You !

  7. Exclusivistic, dogmatic yelling. Nothing inspirational or edifying here. Here’s the summary of his prophecy: “We’re the only ones going to heaven… And I’m not so sure about some of you, either.”
    Stop yelling and go help somebody. I’ll give you extra credit if it’s a Catholic, a Muslim, or a Communist.
    In the meanwhile, stop trying to scare people into “believing”. It only results in more hypocrisy.

    1. drat, beat me to it. its a lovely town.

      alternately, its england – the gog magog downs are surely a sign of deviltry.

  8. Seriously, there have been at least a few times when there’s been a slight escalation of conflict in or near the middle east (just like hundreds of others throughout history), and I’ve had a fundy ask me “Have you read (insert chapter from one of the major prophets) recently? It’s scary – I’m telling you, the end times are right around the corner!”

    If I’ve actually bothered to go look it up, it usually leaves me more confused at what they’re reading into it than anything.

    1. A debunker once held up two editions of an evangelical book. First edition showed all the reasons why the Ayatollah Khomeini was THE Antichrist. The second edition was identical to the first, but the name was changed from Khomeini to Bin Laden. When you point out these inconsistencies to the rapture-ready crowd, they just tell you you have a sinful heart. (However, I believe my brain is working fine, thanks anyway.)

  9. Is the govt candy deal really that much different than demanding small children pledge allegiance to the government every day?

  10. Hold up. Gog and Magog are Russia and Germany (allegedly) and they are going to invade the land of Israel? So how many settlers in 1948 were Russian and German?

    1. Ooooh. You’re on to something!

      Probably many, although it doesn’t really matter. If they weren’t, we can just redefine Gog and Magog accordingly.

  11. The John Hagee followers and Blood Moon believers have been swooning over this whole Israel invading Gaza thing. Really, any time Israel sneezes, there’s Biblical prophecy involved, but the addition of four blood moons in a row just makes it all that more riveting.

    I never thought I’d hear Christians be so excited over the meat grinder that is war, a la Canaanite massacre rationalization.

    1. I felt seriously sick to my stomach when I realized that Christians were seriously lusting for the eternal torture of their political opponents – or anyone who was not them.

      To want the war, the suffering, death and damnation, these people must be seriously perverted. But that is what most prophetic ministries encourage. Be happy! Those who don’t believe are going to hell! Rejoice! The Democrats are all damned to eternal agony!

      A poll taken some years ago showed that more than any other religious group, evangelicals (inc. fundies) were most favorable to torture.

      1. I have a friend who insists that we don’t have to worry about the environment (when it comes to long term damage) because he’s convinced that Jesus will come back before we destroy ourselves.

        I personally don’t believe that he’ll return, but for anyone who does, just imagine for a minute that he doesn’t. Imagine that none of it is true, and now imagine the whole world, or even a quarter of it with this kind of mentality that my friend has ( and I used to have).

        1. Liutgard, I don’t know what you did, but when I clicked on your comment I got an error message saying that SFL’s cert couldn’t be trusted. I proceeded anyway. If the world ends tonight it is your fault.

      1. Having two kittens is cool, because they play with each other.
        If I knew how to post pictures here, I’d put up a photo of our two cats taking a nap together.

      2. I have two large china cats called Gog and Magog. I got the idea from author LM Montgomery (Ann of Green Gables) who poked occasional fun at those who took the Bible literally.

  12. This guy just used the plot from James Clavell’s “The Children’s Story” as something that actually happens in schools in Russia. “The Children’s Story” is a fictional short story inspired by the author’s daughter parroting our pledge of allegiance without knowing what it really meant. It’s been adapted into a play that was preformed in public schools years ago.

    I can’t believe that this guy is intellectually dishonest enough to pass it on to the audience as truth.

    Video adaptation of the story (starts where the prayer begins):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJrbBwLTTTw

    1. Freaky! But for some reason I really like this teacher ๐Ÿ™‚ I think fb pastors hear stories from other fb pastors and repeat them without checking their authenticity. If they hear a story at their fb college, it may actually be a sin to question its authenticity and not use it ๐Ÿ™‚

      1. It’s not uncommon. I was one of those guys who used the story of Simon Greenleaf (supposedly an atheist and well known lawyer teaching at Harvard that set out to prove that Jesus didn’t exist by using his authored tenants, only to find that he did, in fact, exist and he then got saved) to talk to people about Christ. I had originally heard it from my old pastor, and aven Josh McDowell, whom I thought was the pinnacle of apologetics at the time talks about him (it’s on youtube). Turns out he was a lifelong Episcopalian. No such thing ever happened. This happens enough that it makes you wonder how far this kind error occurs. I didn’t leave Christianity because of this, but it is one of the things I would have never really thought was a problem until I was outside looking in.

        1. They are Fundy urban legends. People believe them the same way they believe that someone, somewhere once microwaved a poodle, and that somebody’s giving away a $1000 cake (or cookie or whatever) recipe.

  13. There seems to be a lot of cynism on this blog regarding End Times. Personally I was brought up on Half Lindsey and I swallowed all of it. Now I believe a lot of what he said was misinterpretation of Scripture mixed in with a lot of Wishful Thinking. However, I do believe that Jesus will return someday.maybe soon, maybe far I’m the future. It’s not for me to say. As for what events happen beforehand, I don’t know..
    I wonder how many of the contributors to the blog also believe that Jesus will return. Just because the Fundies say it, dosent be you can dismiss it as rubbish.

    1. Half Lindsey is a much better name for him.

      It’s not the belief that Jesus will return that offends me; it’s people who claim certain knowledge of when and how it will take place.

    2. Isn’t belief in the Second Coming pretty much part of the definition of Christianity? It’s right there in the Nicene Creed, the most widely used profession of faith in Christian liturgy:

      “. . .and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the `quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.”

      And isn’t there some place in the Bible where Jesus says that no one but God knows when that will be?

      1. Yeah, from scripture to creeds to the actual 5 fundamentals, physical return of Christ has always been considered core tenet of traditional Christian faith. What that return looks like differs some (and never till the 1800s included a fake return to just the clouds 7 years early).

      2. Matthew 24:36-44:

        36 โ€œBut about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son,[h] but only the Father. 37 For as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two will be in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding meal together; one will be taken and one will be left. 42 Keep awake therefore, for you do not know on what day[i] your Lord is coming. 43 But understand this: if the owner of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an unexpected hour.”

        This same idea (that no one will know the time) is repeated many times in this chapter and throughout the Gospels.

        Jesus warns against believing specific end-times predictions (Matt 24: 23-28):
        “23 Then if anyone says to you, โ€˜Look! Here is the Messiah!โ€™[e] or โ€˜There he is!โ€™โ€”do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs[f] and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Take note, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, โ€˜Look! He is in the wilderness,โ€™ do not go out. If they say, โ€˜Look! He is in the inner rooms,โ€™ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”

        But Matthew also has Jesus say this (Matt 24:34):
        “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.”

        I hope we can all agree that “this generation” (the one that was alive circa 30 CE) has passed by now. That calls any literalist interpretation of the prophecies as things to happen in the 21st century into question.

      3. Exactly. Which is why a preteristic view of eschatology makes sense to me. If all of the “doomsday” prophecies were fulfilled when the Romans invaded Jerusalem in AD 70, then there are no “signs” that would indicate that Christ’s second coming is near as far as we’re concerned (the signs of impending calamity pointed to the AD 70 event and Christ’s coming in judgement on Jerusalem, not to the second coming). Since there are no signs today that would tip us off, Christ’s second coming will happen when we least expect it – as a thief in the night. All of the New Testament scriptures that indicate the nearness of Christ’s coming in judgement and its associated events make more sense if they were predictive of events that were actually about to happen.

        1. I’m a preterist or perhaps more accurately a partial preterist. Studying that was absolutely fascinating and I agree…its all about A.D. 70. Some parallel readings of the Biblical prophecies and Josephus’ account of the fall of Jerusalem makes for interesting and enlightening reading.

        2. Dear Mountain Man:

          Like Elfdream, a partial [orthodox] preterist here. However I’m going to get around some day to read JS Russell’s monumental work which — to my shame — I’ve never got around to reading.

          I hold the ideal interpretation of the Revelation and find it to be immensely satisfying. This has also shaped how I read all Scripture.

          Christian Socialist

    3. The rubbish isn’t the belief that Christ will return. It’s the attempt to peg the timing of it to specific current events. It’s also overblowing every minor middle-east skirmish, every increase in seismic activity, now apparently every series of “blood moons” into THE sign of the end times. That sort of nonsensical hocus-pocus makes it hard to take whatever they have to say about the actual Bible seriously.

      Not to mention that their end-times prophecy-driven conspiracy mongering always tends to dovetail nicely with fundy political paranoia (suspicion of communism, fear of a one-world government, the UN, humanism, cooperation between nations in general, etc.)

      1. I remember the first time I saw a blood moon. I was with a bunch of friends, and we walked out to look at it. I was so scared I could hardly speak. However, one of my friends happens to be a high school science teacher who specializes in astronomy, and he explained how and why the blood moon has that appearance. And that it not that uncommon of a phenomenon. It was one of many moments that had me questioning what I’d always been told from the pulpit.

  14. I’m surprised the Russians are still portrayed as Magog. I would have thought that the Chinese or the Muslims would have taken over as the scapegoat for all true end times Christian Patriots.

        1. It’s the Swedes, I tell you. It has to be. Those shady nordic infiltrators with their welfare state and their high standard of living, and their sensible, functional, minimalist design. I call Magog!

        2. If it is the Swedes, will the anti-Christ be a guy named Allen Wrench, who will streamline all home decor into a one tool assembly system?

        3. Uncle W, yes, that makes perfect sense. I can’t believe I didn’t see that before.

          *but don’t confuse Mr. Allen Wrench with his half-brother Torx.

    1. Once the Red Chinese or Islamist groups take over the world, (which is heard in some areas of Fundystan) they will be North, as well as other directions, from Israel.

      It’s all in how you proof-text.

    2. My pastor has announced he is retiring (AUGH, AUGH, AAAAAAUGH), and we had this Mennonite conference speaker guy preach this Sunday. He preached on Revelation 20. He mentioned, in passing, that much Christian scholarship has been done and might suggest that Gog an Magog have to do with Russia.
      NO. NO. NOPE. UH-UH. NOT COOL. GO AWAY. PLEASE, current pastor, don’t retire, I can’t handle going back to regular pastors. I don’t want to examine the Bible for specifics rather than themes. It’s pointless. It’s stupid. Who care? Nothing we do will affect when Jesus comes, so can we please knock it off?
      (This same random conference pastor also said that Revelation was written by John the apostle, which is . . . not accurate, according to current actual scholarship. John the apostle is generally defined as John who was one of the disciples, and the writing style of the other works attributed to John the actual apostle does not match up with the writing style of Revelation. Plus, y’know, John was a pretty dang common name. Revelation was probably a random Christian John of some authority, stuck on Patmos. Currently dubbed, natch, John of Patmos. Sigh. This is not hard stuff to look up, pastors. There’s literally a Wikipedia page on it.)

  15. Jesus said he would return with God to rule the new kingdom before the end of the lifetimes of some of those he was speaking to. As in the first century. He never did. Why do modern Christians try to wriggle out of and explain what’s right there in the gospels? Why did it take me years and years to see this? Because I only listened to PASTOR. This is a good article that references verses and translations. Again it’s faith vs. reason. I choose reason.
    http://freethought.mbdojo.com/2ndcoming.html

  16. It baffles me how we treat Scripture. Books like Leviticus and Ezekiel only for proof texting a few dogmas.

    I am certain the Russian Orthodox church might take issue with someone saying Russia is atheistic.
    With the candy story, the speaker reminds us that facts mean nothing to some fundy pastors. As long as it makes the point they want to make, it doesn’t matter if it is factual.

  17. My ears are ringing after listening to him yell. I do not understand why they feel they have to yell. As a mother of six, I can rightly say yelling accomplishes nothing. They tune me out. I have heard these “prophecies” and old Communist stories so many times. They used to scare the poo out of me as a kid. I never understood why people who were supposedly Christians were/are afraid of what they believe is true. I hear Baptists talk all the time about the state of the country, world, etc. If it’s all going to end and they’re all going to be “raptured,” why are they so afraid? I personally don’t have time to be paranoid. I try to live for the day.

  18. Dear SFL Reader:

    GOGALOGICAL DOGMATICS

    Whatever would we do without it!

    With the US and continental European powers seeking confrontation with Russia and China, and given their active preparation for military conflict with them, my guess is that this nonsense is only going to gain momentum. Moreover, the racket this creates in the church will combine with state propaganda to facilitate the preclusion of any quiet, rational discussion of these horrific policies.

    American fundamentalism can go only so long without preaching good old-fashioned gogalogical dogmatics. That in turn requires that America have both enemies and wars.

    Christian Socialist

      1. Oh, dang, I re-read my comment and realized that my own “ewww” could be taken for homophobia. My “ewww” is not at the idea of a man seeing another male as a sweetheart (heaven knows I’d be quite happy to see another female as a sweetheart, wistful sigh), rather my “ewwww” is at the idea of God, traditionally viewed as a parental figure, being looked at in a romantic way. Ick. It’s one of the reasons that the insistence on Song of Songs being an allegory for God’s feelings towards us rather grosses me out: I do not want God, my loving parent, having anything to do with lustful thoughts. He’s God, not Zeus. Ick.

        1. I took it exactly the way you meant it. I meant my comment the same way. Whether or not a Christian is a male or female, I don’t like that whole “Jesus is my boyfriend” thinking. I think He’s the Lord of the Universe.

  19. I listened until 1:40 and had to hit stop. Enough with the yelling!

    I remember my fundy pastor and teachers at fundy school went nuts during Y2K. They thought the rapture was definitely going to take place and the tribulation was about ready to start in 2000.

    It’s not my job to guess when Jesus is coming back; only God knows when that will happen.

  20. Aman it is just about to happen. The angle is puckring his lips even as we speke. Theres wares and rumors of wares averywhere with both Ishreal and the Russens fiting. Warefare all over the middle est. Only bad news about this is theres probly not time for me to get merried.

    1. Fundies like Phil Armemik are the perfect argument for why the prohibitions of Leviticus 18 v 1-18 are in the Bible.

    2. I call poe. Those spelling errors were way too well thought out – and consistent ๐Ÿ˜‰

      Nice try.

    3. Phil,

      I thought you were getting married…what happened?
      Fun to see you posting here.

      ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜‰

  21. For those who may be interested, invaders from the North does not refer to geographical North. The major highways in Palestine ran North to South (the Via Maris and the Via Rex). So North, esp applied to invaders, meant they would enter from the North. The Babylonians, for example, who are essentially Southeast of Israel, also were “Northern invaders”. Pointless trivia, but still.

    1. And showed Israel to be as geographically ignorant as they were about anything else. Everything was local. Nothing in their minds had any reach or distance or real direction.

      1. ?
        I don’t think it shows Israel to be ignorant. Just because they use the compass point to read what direction the threat is coming to them from doesn’t mean they are ignorant to where Babylon or Assyria was located.
        The path of traders and invading armies during that time took the path of what we call the Fertile Crescent. One can keep an army stronger when they have access to water and food. And the empires wanted to control the paths of trade which would follow the route of the fertile crescent because that is where the vast majority of cities and population were centered. So Israel’s threats were mainly Egypt from the South and the Empires that would invade from the north–following the Fertile Crescent–babylon and assyria. That doesn’t mean they didn’t know where the center for the invading army was….Jeremiah’s lament of the cities that were burning as Babylon comes to Israel indicates the count down–they were coming for Jerusalem–systematically taking out each city along the way. They were coming from the northern pass of the King’s Highway.

  22. This kind of “five to ten year” mentality has developed in many minds of Fundies and Evangelicals. They expect to wake up in their beds the next morning, yet the Rapture will happen soon. “We don’t know the day or hour”, but it will be soon. Hence, “hunker down” mentality. “The World is only getting worse” mentality.

    This leads to a pessimistic disposition. If any of you remember the time between the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the coup that happened in Russia, August 1991. I don’t think you found too much optimism in certain “Rapture Ready” type circles. I guess they expected Soviet tanks to roll into Berlin and Prague.

    I remember someone being absolutely skeptical about the fall of the Soviet Union four months before it actually happened.

  23. Anyone else lay awake praying for their children at night from fear of the rapture leaving them abandoned? So much wasted, fearful time gone from my life. Once I was exposed to a little reason and thoughtful non-Baptist thinking, it didn’t take much to let go. Although believing we just magically vanish and miss all the bad stuff was actually a nicer thing to have looming on the horizon.

  24. Prophesy preaching may have been my introduction to Fundamentalism. Shortly after becoming a born again Christian, a number of us from the small Baptist church I was attending went to hear a visiting evangelist preach at a significantly larger church. He spoke about end times prophesy and the Tribulation Period. Even though I had a clear conversion experience, the preaching scared the daylights out of me.

    I probably attended at least two different services because I also remember that evangelist telling the story of fire falling from Heaven at Elijah’s word and killing the two captains and their respective fifties who had come to apprehend him. The evangelist seemed to make a point of how disrespectful these first two captains were towards the man of God. He also may have referred to the dead bodies of those two captains and their soldiers as, “lumps of charcoal.”
    The evangelist also told a personal story the gist of which was something like this: Said evangelist told local preacher of a weather event known to occur in the evangelist’s home region but which was unheard of where that local pastor lived. Local preacher expressed skepticism. Later heretofore unheard of weather event occurred in local pastor’s home area as testified to in a phone call from the previously incredulous local preacher. The evangelist related both accounts with what appeared to be some degree of mirth.

    One more thing, it seems to me that that evangelist either stated or strongly implied that the Rapture would occur no later than 1987. On that point, it looks like he was mistaken.

    1. The evangelist (if my memory is correct) seemed to somewhat enjoy telling the first story when he got to the part about the arrival of the deeply respectful third captain along with that third group of soldiers.

      1. The PCC singing robots came to the outpost in 2007. The preacherboy told about the Israelites crossing the Red Sea and the water coming down to kill the Egyptians. The boy said how the Israelites were happy about seeing the Egyptians die. I went up to him afterward and told him he was wrong and he should never say that again. I know too many combat veterans who’ve watched the enemy die or had to shoot the enemy. It’s never a gleeful thing to watch someone die unless you are mentally deranged. I don’t think it went over well with the whippersnapper. I know the pastor’s son and DIL seemed rather appalled that I upbraided the boy.

        1. I agree with you that rejoicing at seeing the destruction and deaths of the enemy is not something decent people do.

          On the other hand, the Bible records the Song of Moses, in which rejoicing is given for the destruction of the enemy. And yes, I would say such sentiments are those of the mentally deranged.

          In II Thessalonians, Paul tells the persecuted Christians that God will righteously deal with “them that trouble you” “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in all his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe.” (1:6-10)

          So yeah. Christians are supposed to be glad when the Lord kills unbelievers, and admire the Lord’s strength and glory. Is that any better than Islamic fundamentalist terrorism? How does this show grace to the world?

          I don’t remember when it happened that the idea of Christians rejoicing at the destruction of their enemies (or “God’s enemies” or even just those who aren’t “saved”) made me sick to my stomach. I have a Bible in which I’d highlighted those verses. I know that at one time I, too, reveled at the thought of death and destruction in my little self-righteous fundy mind.

          I’m just glad I don’t think that way now.

    2. “Said evangelist told local preacher of a weather event known to occur in the evangelistโ€™s home region but which was unheard of where that local pastor lived. Local preacher expressed skepticism. Later heretofore unheard of weather event occurred in local pastorโ€™s home area as testified to in a phone call from the previously incredulous local preacher.”

      Rain of frogs? (It happens; look it up.)
      Rain of bullgipp? (Happens all the time.)

      1. Yep. And it isn’t divine judgment, either.

        And how about the several “blood moons” that have been happening lately? – with no disasters following? – And God not actually showing up?

        I have come to the conclusion that a lot of what has been attributed to “God” in certain disasters is not divine inspiration, but the conclusion of the writer as to why an even happened, along with a moralization.

  25. The evangelist (if my memory is correct) seemed to somewhat enjoy telling the first story when he got to the part about the arrival of the deeply respectful third captain along with that third group of soldiers.

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