GOH: We Will Stand Our Ground

This song comes from the same source as yesterday’s tweet.

I’m still trying to figure out exactly what the pastor is doing in the first part of the video. Is he leading the singing? Is he pantomiming preaching to illustrate what the kids are singing about? Is he just warming up for the sermon? I really can’t tell.

135 thoughts on “GOH: We Will Stand Our Ground”

  1. Yeah, I am wondering about the pastor too because his lips were not moving with the song.
    I have been away from the south for a while (and even when I was in the South I was told I wasn’t really in the south because they do not claim Kentucky…but neither does the North). That was some serious twang in that song. Made me miss the almost south.

    1. If it is the same as the times I went there, I think they teach the women (well, anyone who is going to sing) to sing with that twang.

      1. Because it don’t mean a thang if it ain’t got that twang. Seriously though, there’s a lot good to be said for Southern Gospel.

  2. Appropriating death threats of “stand your ground” to define fundy nonsense as worth killing over is jarring. I thought maybe I was overreacting, but they also state that “there are things worth fighting for”.

    Shane Claiborne says (and I pretty much 100% endorse) that “there’s nothing worth killing over, but there is something worth dying for” as his understanding of new testament teaching on violence.

        1. If I had been in Sandy Hook Elementary and had the means, I absolutely would have killed that shooter if by doing so I could have protected those innocent children.

        2. The teachers and staff bravely confronted the gunman and laid down their lives for the children, but their courage didn’t stop the criminal. They were willing to die for their students (and I admire that so much). Some of us are also willing to kill to protect children from imminent death.

        3. I don’t claim to be smart, just a career cop who has been in plenty of deadly force situations. I’ve been shot in the line of duty, but never had to kill anyone. But make no mistake–I would kill someone in self-defense or in the defense of another. And I’d lose no sleep over having done it.

        4. So what is your point? Jesus is also God and one day he will judge everyone who has ever lived and will render final judgment on many to whom he will declare, “I never knew you depart from me.” and that will be without remedy.

          So just what is your point revdavepett?

        5. Dear Rev,
          Like I said, if I ever had to (not that I’d want to) I’d drop the hammer to defend my life or the life of someone else. Frankly, no offense, but I don’t really care what Jesus would do here.

          Tonight, when you go to bed, I hope you thank the baby Jesus that you have patrol officers around who would do just that to protect you, and to to protect your right to be self-righteous and all knowing–when, I’d bet, you’ve never been in a shoot-don’t shoot real life scenario. I have, my friend. I have.

        6. I was speaking to the Shane Claiborne quote, the point of which was that Jesus would never kill anyone for any reason. Die, yes. Kill, no.

          I am not Jesus. If someone attempted to kill my children, I too would stop them with whatever force necessary, even if it meant killing them.

          But I can’t see any spin we could put on Jesus that credibly depicts him taking another life.

          And, just like when he walked on the earth, it sure disturbs folks when we realize how differently he sees things than we do. Guess that’s why hey killed him.

        7. Self-righteous? All knowing? I’m a chaplain with the local police dept, and also get put in dangerous situations because of it. I appreciate the service of law enforcement greatly. All I said was “Jesus would not kill”l which is what they Claiborne quote meant. I thought this was a forum for. Open minded discussion. If I wanted to be called names for stating a thought, I’d stick with the fundies.

        8. I’m really not trying to name call you or anyone else. Sorry if it came across that way. It’s a bit of a sensitive area, maybe, as I’ve lost many friends in the line of duty over the past 26 years. I’ve been privileged to have known men and women who have laid down their own lives to defend the powerless. I took your statement (perhaps mistakenly) as a condemnation of those who, having taken an oath to serve and protect, are condemned by the religious for taking a life in the line of duty. In your capacity as a police chaplain, you’ve probably seen that life is not a sterile environment. The police, as I always say, are in the bad shit business.

          Thank you for serving as a chaplain. Many years ago, while serving as a police officer for the Dallas Police Dept, a Roman Catholic chaplain helped me keep it together after I was involved in a particularly traumatic event. As a chaplain, please help take care of our men and women in uniform. They’re all sort of my kids now, at least in my mind.

        9. And yet he has done just that in a very direct, specific and public manner in how he dealt with Ananias and Sapphira… didn’t he?

        10. Bald, sorry if I came across as an a-hole. Wasn’t condemning anyone, but I see how it appeared that way.

          Don, sorry, I’m not following you. Jesus had no interactions with Ananias and Sapphira in scripture.

        11. Yeah, Don, I recognize the individual words, but the way you are stringing them together is failing to produce a synapse fire in my brain. Maybe one or both of us needs to get their medication adjusted. But, anyhoo, I’ll just say you’re right and I’m wrong.

        12. In honor of my fallen brothers and sisters, I post the following poem, read at the funeral of many police officers. It always brings faces to my mind, and tears to my eyes.

          “The Final Inspection”

          The policeman stood and faced his God,
          Which must always come to pass.
          He hoped his shoes were shining.
          Just as brightly as his brass.

          “Step forward now, policeman.
          How shall I deal with you?
          Have you always turned the other cheek?
          To My church have you been true?”

          The policeman squared his shoulders and said,
          “No, Lord, I guess I ain’t,
          Because those of us who carry badges
          can’t always be a saint.

          I’ve had to work most Sundays,
          and at times my talk was rough,
          and sometimes I’ve been violent,
          Because the streets are awfully tough.

          But I never took a penny,
          That wasn’t mine to keep….
          Though I worked a lot of overtime
          When the bills got just too steep.

          And I never passed a cry for help,
          Though at times I shook with fear.
          And sometimes, God forgive me,
          I’ve wept unmanly tears.

          I know I don’t deserve a place
          Among the people here.
          They never wanted me around
          Except to calm their fear.

          If you’ve a place for me here,
          Lord, It needn’t be so grand.
          I never expected or had too much,
          But if you don’t…..I’ll understand.

          There was silence all around the throne
          Where the saints had often trod.
          As the policeman waited quietly,
          For the judgment of his God.

          “Step forward now, policeman,
          You’ve borne your burdens well.
          Come walk a beat on Heaven’s streets,
          You’ve done your time in hell.”

          Author Unknown

        13. Au contraire, Jesus most definitely would have killed, given the appropriate situation. He would have hung a millstone around the neck of those who would harm “the least of these”, and cast them into the sea, unless you believe that He didn’t wish upon them the “best” for their lives. Not only that, but I do believe that he would have continued to whip the asses of the moneychangers in the Temple unto death if they hadn’t skedaddled.

        14. According to the fundies Jesus kills everyone except for the fundies after the rapture.

          And he kills people in horrible bus accidents who don’t come forward during the invitation.

          Without these 2 key theological points, what will evangelists have to preach about? Loving your neighbor? Feeding the poor?

          😉

        15. Do you have scriptural evidence to back this up? Because Jesus could be and indeed was violent when necessary.

          Regardless, I’m not Jesus. And my children’s well-being is all I ultimately care about, and I will do whatever I have to do to defend them.

        16. I cannot think of an incident in which Jesus was “violent”. He ran some people out of an area of the Temple – he didn’t maim or kill them. Now, it does seem he had a problem with both pigs and figs.

          My theological tradition teaches that the Bible must be understood as a whole, not piece by piece. We cannot form doctrine based on single verses or even chapters. In other words, the Bible isn’t a collection of stories – it’s a Story. I just can’t view the overall picture painted of Jesus in the Gospels as anything but a suffering servant. He didn’t cause death – he conquered it!

    1. Dear RobM:

      That was my first reaction. ‘He’s going to arm them with Bibles and handguns.’ On the other hand, I have to thank Darrell for furnishing the title, without which I would not have been able otherwise to hear.

      Christian Socialist

    1. Actually, this song contradicts their cherished pre-Trib eschatology because it says that the preachers will defend the faith right up to the day that the world burns. I thought they were already gonna be outta here, hay-men??

    2. Oh man, I relistened to the song, cause I missed that part, and realized that my brain had processed it as “until the day the whole world learns” instead of “burns”. I don’t get the embrace of all the violent imagery they can cram into their songs & services.

    1. I couldn’t make out all the words, but I got the gist of it: “We’re right, and everyone else is wrong.”
      I guess almost everybody believes that on some level, but it still seems arrogant to write an opera with that message.

  3. The stage set up isn’t very “fundy.” The message of the song sure is. The sign “Contenders” sure is. I doubt that they would have a big sign saying “Peacemakers.”

    1. If you are an mbbc grad than you know that this would be viewed as compromising and contemporary by northern fundies.

      I guess by old fashioned they mean 80’s CCM/Sutherin Gospel fashioned

      1. and when I hear “contenders”, I think of the Monty Python skit where the humanist and the vicar decide the meaning of life in a boxing ring :mrgreen:

  4. I think given what the church sign says there will be people who are shocked, I say SHOCKED when they show up for a service and see a stage with projection, lighting effects, handheld microphones, and a pastor using Twitter. Old Fashioned my well shaped backside

    I guess words can mean whatever someone wants to think they mean. I thought only low information Obama voters got to do that?

        1. This is a southern gospel song in the “Bible story” tradition, although it hews MUCH more closely to the text than is typical. It sounds like some quartet had a bit too much to drink one night and decided to see who could write a song with the most clever rhymes for the most obscure Hebrew proper nouns. Lo-Debar indeed!

        2. That song is by Gary Duty — he headed a bluegrass/acoustic gospel group called Sound Doctrine for several years. He was really one of the better songwriters I’ve heard in fundy circles, and I still don’t mind listening to most of their stuff.

          If I remember right, he started teaching that you didn’t have to repent of sins in the age of grace, and he and the fundies I knew separated.

      1. Wow, little Miss Polka Dots seems pretty pissed that SHE didn’t get picked to sing the solo. I mean, look, she knows ALL the words!!!

      2. I like the banner: JESUS is the Answer To All Your Problems . . .

        This makes math way easy.

        What are the x-intercepts of y = x4 – 81? JESUS!

        If a regular hexagon has sides equal to 12, what is the area? JESUS!

        A right triangle has legs of 24 inches and 18 inches. Find the length of the hypotenuse. JESUS!

        I’m now a math wizard, yeah!!!

        1. Some comments regarding your math, Sir:

          Equation #1.) A. the variable is written before the coefficient as opposed to the standard practice of placing the coefficient first. B. “intercepts” is plural; there is only one [1] intercept, and it is located at 22.5

          Equation #2.)no units are provided for this problem, but if we simply add the generic term, “unit,” the answer is 276*sqrt3 units^2
          *Not only does this answer differ from the first, but it is IRRATIONAL!*

          Equation #3.)Legs? legs? Anyway, given the length of the two other sides, the hypotenuse has a length of 30 inches
          *But this answer differs from the other two!*

          Clearly then, the “answer” referred to here is not immutable, and per Hebrews 13:8 must not be referring to the Savior, but to some created being, or to “a god.” THIS IS PURE ARIANISM!

          Furthermore, we see that these “answers” potentially could be anything– “all things to all men” if you will!

          Since we know that Paul was a man, and that he was made “all things to all men,” we can conclude that a transformed man = “all things to all men”

          Have you not considered the implications of this, Sir!

          “the answer” = a god = all things to all men,
          a transformed man = all things to all men;
          therefore: a transformed man = a god– i.e. man can become a god: HERESY!

          Regrettably, Sir, this posting contains bad math and horrifying Theology!

        2. Whoa there, college boy/girl, you’re complicating the simplicity that’s in Christ by thinking too much. We’re not called to think–where in the bible does it ever say such a thing? We’re called to believe, and proclaim. Eve thought and ate the fruit. The devil thought and was cast from heaven. Bill Nye the Science Guy thought and came up with like a gazillion-year universe. Nothing good ever comes from thinking.

          So, ignoring all the figuring stuff you did with the problems I gave (which I admit I copy-pasted from a Math Question of the Day site)–are you saying that instead of being a math wizard, I am now a math god? Cool beans! 😎

        3. Nico, how do you get away with creating a P.O.E.? I tried submitting my first one in response to this post, but it’s not showing up.

          Not a huge loss really. It didn’t wind up being as funny as I would have liked.

        4. Haaaaaayyyyymen Bro. Scorpio! Pay and obey, for there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to pay and obey.

          No questions. No thinking. The foolish things confound the wise. The smarty-pants secular crowd will wake up dead in The Literal Hell one day, and the smoke from their burning flesh will scald their godless throats and swell up their cursing, furin’ language-speaking tongues and melt their pea brains and then we’ll see how intellectual they think they are.

          Oh, yes, when God lights up the Last Day BBQ, there’ll be some different attitudes, but it’ll be everlastingly too late. But now I’ve quit commenting and gone to preachin’.

        5. Not “Jesus”, it’s pronounced “JAY-zus!”, exclamation point mandatory, better yet if you can wring four or five syllables out of it. 🙄
          You know, I should have tried that answer for every single question on all my finals at my Fundy high school, would have gotten an A+ in everything. 😀 😛

        6. nico – If the Spirit moves, don’t stop preaching. It has been a blessing to think of an endless hell for those uppity book smart folks.

        7. Oh, it’s such a delight to contemplate the charcoaling of the secular humanist intellectual crowd. But, in my immense humility, I can take no credit even though I am pleased to be a blessing to you–all the glory to God.

          And a secondary hat-tip to that Man After God’s Own Heart, the Prophet, King, and Sweet Psalmist of Israel David who knew how to bring down imprecations on the heads of his enemies, bless God! He was a lot better at it than I am.

        8. Aha! See, you were led into error in your first answer by thinking too much.

          I know Jesus, but I don’t really know math. Am I reading your answer correctly as two-hundred sixteen squirts three units squared? This sounds like crazy dirty talk to me. Squirting units? 😯 I prefer my answer since it is shorter, simpler, and far more godly.

          (Ben, is this you?)

        9. nico, with shame I will confess to my handiwork. By the way, the answer was really two hundred-sixteen times the square root of three units squared. I didn’t round the answer because the square root of three is irrational–get it? irrational. Yeah, I know, tain’t funny.

          You ever have thoughts that seem clever or have what seem to be a great ideas in dreams only to find that they are neither once you actually write them down or try to explain them to someone? Well, maybe the highly agitated use of capitalization and exclamation points was amusing. But I’m guessing not.

  5. Love that the song glories the mighty MOG. I’m surprised that they didn’t now down and throw flowers in his direction. It was fitting that he was in the middle waving for their laurels.

  6. This song–the reason intellectual discussion with a fundy is impossible. “We will stand our ground.” No, we are not incorrect, we base it on our “authority” (that calls itself the authority), and yes, you are wrong.

    I don’t mean to offend, but I have never understood calling the Bible an absolute authority. I mean, you have to take it on faith; although some truths in it may be universal to all (don’t kill, etc.), it as an authority must be taken on faith. Fundies need to understand why some people just don’t sign on to have that “authority” in their lives. Everyone has morals, but telling people they are wrong if they don’t agree with your “higher” morals is wrong (especially to be applied to other Christians).

    Sorry for the lengthiness, this has always bugged me in discussion because there is no logical way to argue it. These people have picked a standard, which I can wholeheartedly respect, but then to force that on everyone else in the world (over their own moral code) is wrong.

    PS. Pretty sure the pastor guy was doing that classic thing of talking over the singing for the altar call or the like, raining down guilt, more guilt, and a bit of wanting to get some decisions (aka aisle cred–like street cred but in church).

    1. I am not sure if it is because it is easier or more comfortable to simply hand over all authority to faith to a book and to a preacher or if it is fear induced, but you are right in saying this song is the epitome of the fundamentalist mindset. And it is all about authority–you don’t question it, you don’t think about it, you simply accept it. And if anyone does question it, its an attack from Satan.

      And you are probably right on the pastor–he probably was talking over the song but his mic was not on so he looks like he doesn’t know the song but is trying to sing with them.

      1. It really is the epitome of the Fundamentalist mindset. I know a girl who in my HS asked the Bible teacher why we should accept the Bible, and his (the associate pastor) response was, “because it said so.” Fundamentalism is all about absolutism. Black and white. No grey areas whatsoever. Thus the need for an “absolute” authority whereas the rest of us just live with our experience based morals.

    2. See: http://www.racehochdorf.com/blog/2014/1/11/the-tyranny-of-fundamentalist-language

      Quoting here: Hochdorf has translations for fundie-speak:
      My interpretation of the Bible = “God’s word”

      My political views = “God’s way”

      Believers in evolution = “atheists”

      Rejection of literalism = “compromise”

      Secularists, liberals, libertarians… anyone not Republican = “persecutors”, “assailants of Christianity”

      Gender equality = “attacking the institution of the family”

      Our small individual sect = “the church”

  7. And now, the George Zimmerman version of this song:

    There are things we won’t give over
    There are things worth fighting for
    Like not letting black kids walk down our streets
    With skittles from the corner store.
    When the libs and the dems and Obama press on
    To tear our communities down
    We will stand our ground!

    Despite what the liberals have to say
    The Second Amendment has never changed
    It still means everything it says
    It is now and forever the same.
    The world may think they have won this fight
    But there are some that can still be found
    With a concealed carry license and a gun
    Who will stand their ground!

  8. There are things we won’t give over,
    There are things worth fighting for
    ………………………………
    When the world, the flesh and the devil press on
    And try to tear our strongholds down
    We will stand our ground.

    Standing your ground must mean using a preposition to end your sentences.

    1. There’s no problem with ending sentences with prepositions, especially if it’s part of the verb form, which in this case, it is.

      There’s a big difference between telling someone at work, “clock me” and “clock me out.”

      The editor for one of the magazines I write for is so linguistically conservative, he makes William Safire look like Jay-Z, and he flat out tells us to end sentences with prepositions, because the result is nearly always awkward otherwise.

      1. I thought it very strange when I encountered Beka’s rule of saying, “am I not?” instead of “aren’t I?”. I told my kids that it sounded weird and awkward to say “am I not?” and that they could safely ignore that rule. I also told them it was okay to split infinitives.

        Yes, I am a rebel.

        1. A frizzy piece of string, tied in the middle, walks into a bar. The bartender says, “Hey, haven’t you been in here before?” The string says, “I’m a frayed knot.”

  9. Get your hands outta yo pockets!!!! ACK! Drives me nuts. Its one thing if you’re outside and its cold, but on stage…..

  10. I was raised a Fundy and still believe several so called fundamental doctrines. Years back I found this site and saw the other side of many religious arguments. For showing me that everything is not black and white, I thank Darrell and some of the community here. I have noticed more and more lately that the same “I am right so you are wrong” attitude is here. Fundies feel that they are enlightened and wish to open all other eyes to their way of thinking. It seems that when a person escapes the Fundies, they carry this attitude with them. I love a good dialogue but the personal attacks are not very loving. Sorry if this sounds like an attack. I hope we can learn to disagree and still love the Lord and each other. p.s. Sorry for the novel.

    1. @Nobody-First, considering how some of us ramble, no apology necessary for the length. That barely qualifies as an essay, much less a novel. You do, though, make a good point. I believe most people have a “I am right so you are wrong” attitude to some extent. It often comes out whether it is meant to or not.

      If I may, please allow me to take a page from the mog manual and tell a personal story. When my girlfriend (now wife of 30 years) met my family (parents, six younger brothers), she thought they/we were the cockiest group she had ever met. She said later she realized it was not cocky, but confidence. I’m in my 50’s, my dad in his 70’s. We both have a similar philosophy about being right. I copied this from him. He is not as legalistic as when I was younger, not KJV only, but still in a VERY Fundy IFB church. Once he was asked about his attitude of always being right. He replied that, “Yes. I do always think I’m right. If you can show me where I am wrong, I will change my opinion and then be right again.” I follow this pretty much because I see no reason to have a belief I have doubts about.

      To try to wind up my novella, I think a lot of people see a confidence in speech as an “I’m right you’re wrong” attitude. Many of us on SFL do believe we are right, or we would not post our thoughts. I believe I am right about many things that differ from the views expressed by other posters. The difference is we can agree to disagree and remain friends. IFB culture, which I grew up in and am still on the fringes of in some of my relationships, is very different. If you disagree with them, you are not only wrong, but apostate infidels on the highway to Hell. Most of us wouldn’t care so much about the foibles of the IFB if they weren’t so adamant in their silliness and belief that only they have the correct explanations of Scripture.

      **Pleas forgive grammar errors. 12 hour overnight shift and a lack of sleep are to blame, not George.

  11. Ack! My inner music teacher / children’s choir director is rocking back & forth in the corner with her hands over her bleeding ears.

      1. It only lasted about a minute and a half before I stopped the playback.

        Oy. Brought back memories from when I helped lead children’s choir in a SBC & anything I tried to teach them about tone production & breath support was undermined by shouts of, “SING OUT, children!” when they sang in church.

  12. And did anyone else notice the strict separation of the sexes on that stage? Are they afraid that tweens accidentally bumping each other would set the place on fire?

  13. How in the world did this inspire an altar call?

    I think the little kid who “seeded the call” and walked up first was bribed with a double allowance for the week.

  14. It occurred to me that this [excruciatingly bad] song expresses a point of view that is the diametric opposite of what was expressed in that Coke commercial introduced during the Super Bowl.

  15. This is my first post, I read occasionally but never comment. I do go to an ifb church but for some reason most of the things that are condemned or made fun of don’t really happen at our church, guess it’s unique. Our pastor doesn’t try to climb the ifb ladder, just a group of common people. A pastor at a ‘high’ ifb church said about our pastor ‘he’s reaching people in the community no one else can.’ He grew up on the local mill hill and never forgot his roots. I read the horror stories on here with part of me thanking God our church doesn’t match the stereotype on here. Ok that’s my background.

    Anyways I noticed the self defense talk at the beginning of the comments. As a child I witnessed my mother murdered. Through a strange set of circumstances I got to speak on a secular nationally syndicated radio show and it’s partner magazine wrote an article about my story. If anyone would like to read you can do so here: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/the-ordinary-guy/good-from-evil/

    1. Tony, I just read your compelling story. Thank you for sharing it with SFL. I hope that you continue to find healing from this tragedy. God bless you and your family.

      1. thanks for reading it. unlike a lot of people who debate self defense/guns etc i have faced it first hand. i have seen what happens to a person when a tiny piece of lead passes through them, and the fallout that happens both legally and to a family. my life was torn apart that day. i thank God he used it to bring me to himself. and when people have horrific stories and ask how God gets people through real tragedy i can say let me tell you what happened to me…

        a couple of years ago i read the book mentioned in the article which got me thinking about all these things (side note, the author wrote a sequel to the book last year which includes me and my mother as two of the chapters). i wrote a fb post the other day dealing with self defense (and i don’t brag about guns, not that kinda guy) and theres more to it than the typical cliches like ‘i don’t call 911’ people need to seriously ask their self and think about,
        would i defend my life
        would i defend the life of my friends and family
        would i defend the life of an innocent stranger.
        after several years of trying to think those things through I’m settled on most of the things, just hope it never happens (and with him coming up for parole soon id be lying if i said i haven’t imagined different scenarios happening).
        i just pray that he has gotten saved while in prison. I’ve prayed for him and mailed him gospel tracts (i know sfl makes fun of that). i just hope my life or family’s life never has to make use of the things I’ve earnestly thought about.

        1. Thank you for your story. I’m so glad for God’s grace in your life.

          (Side note on the tracts: I personally think they can be a useful tool, but I feel they are often misused and overused. I do think sending one to your step-father in prison is an excellent use of a tract.)

  16. Still a bit mind-blowing how we got from “And the kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdom of our God and He shall reign forever and ever” to this BS.

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