Here’s a delightful excerpt from The Hyles Church Manual:
Posted by Darrell
From the mouths of babes . . .
did they know they were being funny or is it a typo?
It’s not a typo. Hyles was sharing it as “cute story” and then goes on to talk about how some deacons (not his) do act like “demons” by trying to boss the pastor around.
His wouldn’t dare! They are specifically chosen for that very quality.
demons shouldn’t try to overthrown their ruler…satan whoops went to far.
“a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand”
“A house divided is a duplex.”
Snickering at boy mom….
So, ummmm, I have a question . . . what exactly is a “Bible deacon”? I know what the Bible is and I know what a deacon is, but I’ve never heard of a Bible deacon. For that matter you also have the “Bible office”. Haven’t they ever heard of using the word “Biblical”?
The word “Biblical”, not being in the Bible, is unbiblical grammar. It is also not Bible grammar.
The word “Bible” isn’t in the Bible, either.
Yes it is, it’s on the title page just past the gigantic color picture of Jack Hyles. It says “King James Bible”.
Why, Dr. F, you have the same copy of the Bible that *I* do! great minds, and all that…
Odd – every time I spot a new post, hoping to be first, it looks like there are already 7 replies ahead of me – always 7. I wonder if that’s significant?
I think “demons” is perfectly descriptive of some of them.
Well… according to most IFB’s 7 is the number of perfection, so obviously Beowulf that means you are perfect?
Actually, I think it means that the person who posted just *before* him is perfect. Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Really? Most deacons in the HAC-type churches I know are contemptible; they have sold out for a position and recognition… they’ve become the pastor’s yes-men and cannot only repeat the agreed-upon mantra from their secret meetings.
Because they are required to support the pastor, they are handcuffed from pointing out Biblical errors to those whom they lead. They see financial irregularities, but cannot tell others because it would be ‘disloyal’.
I’ve always considered such men pathetic, to be pitied, not demons.
I have no pity for those who sell themselves willingly for recognition and position. You had it right the first time – they should be held in contempt, not pity.
I agree!! Many times, when my ifb pastor wanted advice from the deacons, he would begin by saying: “Now, I’m only asking you to see what your stance is, but in the end I get the final say.” I remember those days far too well…
On those RARE occasions someone would even ask a question in the deacon meetings I was a part of, I’d notice that he’d quickly move on to other business, and say, “Well, I was just throwing that out there”.
He’d also always brag that he wouldn’t do anything that the deacons didn’t agree with unanimously, and that was only true because we were a bunch of hand-picked “yes” men. I am ashamed of myself now.
When I was a deacon (and later, chairman of the deacons), I tried to live up to the office as much as possible. That being said, somewhere small, and deep-down inside of me, I liked the prestige. Ain’t that some sick crap? We weren’t even an 80 family church, but there was STILL something about being in the inner-circle.
BTW, I ultimately resigned because I didn’t feel like I was living up to the ideal that was put upon me as chairman.
I agree mostly, GR, but I have known a very few who sincerely studied the Scriptural role of elders and deacons, who wanted to do the right thing, and who eventually resigned in disgust and despair. Yet another evil result of the IFB Pope being given full control…
I truly believe he just made stuff up and there was no basis of fact in anythig he ever said. What little girl cares who sits where in church,and I realize that wasn’t the point of the story, yeah, deacons/demons cute, I get it, but I guarantee, it never happened.
My thoughts exactly. What little girl refers to a church by it’s full name and location? And what little girl calls the pastor brother?
Possibly she wasn’t a little girl. She was a “lovely little girl.” Maybe she’s 16 or 17 and then the story isn’t so cute.
When I was a little girl, we did call the children’s pastor “Brother.” Of course, it was because we were told to. Since his last name was Scudder, his name often became “Butter Scudder.” Fortunately, the man had enough of a since of humor to appreciate it.
“Scudder” from Quentin Road? Butter is pretty accurate.
A completely brainwashed little girl in a cult? Maybe??
I sometimes wonder if he (and others) are so self-deluded that they actually think anyone believes these little tales? I mean, anyone with two braincells to rub together for friction.
I’m pretty nearly persuaded by those of you who say that Hyles just made up all of his stories, but what impresses me more is that the subject of every story he ever told was “Why I Am the Greatest Pastor in the History of the Universe.”
Oh, and… if he is surrounded by demons, who would that make him in this story?
The manogawd being persecuted by Satan himself for being the manogawd, clearly.
No, dear mounty, it makes him the king of the demons. Trust us on this one. And yes, Sims, you know this is a lie. No little girl ever said it, and he loved a chance to insist that no board of deacons would ever DARE push him around. Jack Hyles answered to NOBODY, hence his downfall. Forget the Scriptural way a church was set up… Only the Jack Way mattered.
I particularly like how the whole family (especially the little girl) just absolutely LOVED FBC dearly, and noticed how different it was from other places, etc etc. All part of his little storyline in which HE is the first, best, most, only and everything else. Oh yes, and the man was a medical doctor. I just hope his name wasn’t Streeter.
What? I would LOVE it if Streeter had left!!!
Yeah, I guess my thought when I said it was sympathy for the poor town they would have relocated TO (in this fictional tale)
Hmmmm…. have the ever read the classic of “Deacon Heckle and Pastor Snide”?
I think it was Bob Gray in Texas who said the deacons sit on the platform to do nothing other than cheer on the pastor like a bunch of cheerleaders. How disgusting that they weren’t allowed to sit with their wives and kids, but they had to cheer on the pastor because his massive ego demanded it.
I am sure they felt it a privelige and honor to be asked to sit on the platform in a throne of distinction. Not ONE of them would have considered refusing the invitation, and probably secretly didn’t even WANT to sit with their wife and kids. The opportunity to be allowed such proximity to the managawd during such a blessed and holy time would be something to be greatly desired. Sick, sad and disgusting.
Two things, one, in the picture there is a little church logo or something right on the fat guy on the right’s crotch, very disturbingly placed. Also, when I moved to New England some years ago the x and I were searching for a church and one of the ones we visited was like a zoo with the pastor up there yelling at the congregation and all the guys on the stage getting up waving their Bibles and amening everything it was such a joke. And they said any visitors should come by room whatever and have donuts and coffee with the pastor and the x actually thought we were going to do that!! I said you WANT to have a donut with THEM??? This is a zoo, we are out of here…
Donuts – fundy drug of choice.
“sit with their wives and kids”…Oh, but wouldn’t the kids be in “junior church”?!? WAIT! Has Darrell done “Junior Church”? *Goes and looks*
When you make statements like this, “It will be a cold day in hell when I get my Theology from a woman,” it is then that you will need a group of unquestioning, loyal men behind you to back you up. It reminds me of when Ed McMahon sat next to Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show for the sole purpose of positive affirmation.
Not entirely fair to Ed McMahon…when he was sober, he was one of the best straight men in the business. A lot of Johnny’s gags depended upon Ed to pull them off and there was genuine chemistry between the two of them. These guys could be very easily replaced, I imagine.
The second word in the except was “DICUSSION”!?!?
When Jack Hyles said “discussion,” he meant “monologue by me.”
Our deacon sits up the front… but then, he’s the organist as well, and the organ’s up at the front. He is, however, completely concealed by the said organ.
Inquiring minds want to know, is said organ white? And could it be seen by others?
An actual real “doctor” at a baptist church! Or maybe he was a chiropractor.
They did have one doctor at First Baptist Church. He was the physician at the college. Simply put, I would never have gone voluntarily to see him.
He was a shyster and a quack, a sadist and a philanderer.
I had two of those words in my original post (the one I erased several times and ended up with what you see there) and I couldn’t agree more heartily. My family didn’t go to doctors much. I can’t remember two times in my childhood that I was in a doctors office (for myself) We got our immunizations in a trailer in a grocery store parking lot. He was my first memorable experience with having to see a doctor, and I have had an incredible fear of doctors ever since. So much so that I can’t even tell you the suffering I endured at his expense.
Do you mean Dr. Streeter? I don’t know anything about him since I’m not from there, other than their writings. I’m not sure which publication it was I read it but he was saying he didn’t believe in girls’ sports. Girls ought not to play sports he said, except for cheerleading since that is being a helpmeet to the boys. I was so disgusted by this statement. As a doctor he should’ve known that exercise is good for everybody.
He is a supreme idiot.
Idiots ought not to be medical doctors.
Why did he even have to mention the doctor? It has nothing to do with the story. All he had to write was “Once a family from our church moved to another town and started looking for another church.” My guess is that he mentions that the dad was a doctor to give added prestige to himself.
“Once upon a time, in a church far, far away…”
People tend to look up to doctors, and consider them smarter than the average person (they did go to school much longer than the average person does). So, it reflects prestige upon him that a medical doctor would think the pastor and church and pastor are great.
I know I repeat this, maybe too much but I’ll shout it from the roof tops:
“When one is accountable only to God…
They soon become the only god they are accountable to.”
Look at Hyles, Gray, Jones, Sexton, Smith, Roloff, Schaap… and those are just the tip of the iceberg. The past godfathers of the pulpit have designed the template and it is copied across the cult of Fundiedom. Error begets error, guilt begets greater guilt, and manipulation begets lies, false doctrine, deceit and cover-ups.
A great part of what passes for Christian worship on Sunday morning isn’t. This man worship of the pulpiteer has created a famine of truth. The M-O-g is placed on the throne and Jesus is made out to be his subordinate. Everyone answers to the all knowing, all powerful M-O-g. Deacons bow down before him and grovel at his feet.
And all the king’s servants, that were in the king’s gate, bowed, and reverenced Haman (or insert your favorite fundie M-O-g here): for the king had so commanded concerning him.
*sigh… heavy sigh*
Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.”
By the way, Don, are you interested in blogging? I might have something for you…
PM me in the forum. or contact me here http://persifler.wordpress.com/
Very nice turn of phrase.
I must be missing something… where in Scripture are we told that a pastor must have his deacons sit behind him on the platform. Am I understanding that their placement during the sermon is vital as “it is not enough to preach the message unless we use the methods of the Word of God.” I went to Temple Baptist for 5 years. Clarence doesn’t have deacons sit up on the platform, but he does has those next in power to him up there… also helps keep an eye on the college students to mk sure they’re not holding hands during the prayer time. =)
The same place where the Bible sets up the role of the pastor/preacher that we have today. It’s not there. Seriousy, look up the word Pastor in the Bible.
So, let’s see if this Gravatar thing works.
But, given your doctorate, should it not be a pic of a reaching loved hand?
GLOVED, George! Certainly not loved, in those circs!!
I am very, very thankful you added that clarification…
Wow, me too.
Yeah it’s nice isn’t it? I love my kitty.
That story annoys me. I know the point of it is the funny joke about demons/deacons and the unstated point is the exaltation of Hyles and his church, but it’s sad that a little girl thinks church is only church if it’s done this one particular way. There are NO Biblical instructions about deacons sitting on platform, having a pulpit, having a choir lofts, having pews or chairs, having a projection screen or not. The church is the body of Christ, believers gathered together whether in a magnificent structure or in someone’s living room. Just because it doesn’t look one particular way doesn’t mean it’s not legitimate. (Which all goes without saying but I wanted to say it anyway.)
All I have to say is, Geez, ego much Rev Hyles?
The half cannot be fancied this side the golden shore…. ( pardon my lapse into a GOH)
GOH? Pray tell.
Good Old Hymn? Grand Old Hymn? With an organ, no doubt… gotta love the organ.
Grand Old Hymn, and two hilarious girls in my bus division at HAC sang it often, but so fast that it was nearly impossible to understand the words. It is one of those with repeating harmony sections, etc., so it WAS funny. Hey, gimme a break, I was at HAC. We found our humor where we could….
Division Ten: less BS than most.
Am I the only one who read this and thought, “Freudian slip?”
Deaconesses are in the Bible, but where do they sit in the good Reverend’s church?
On his lap!
Or under his footstool. Or in the nursery or kitchen.
In the office next door
Do you think any of those guys have a clue who the widows and orphans in the church are?
I was widowed, with small children. I can attest that I never met a board who understood or even was aware of those verses. Those believers who showed the most compassion were not fundies, for sure. On the upside, my own now-grown children are very sensitive to the widowed and especially to the orphaned! In fact, I seriously think I may get some third-world grand babies, but I get so excited when I type that, that I get all tearful and goose-bumpy! it cannot happen soon enough for me!
I hope the grand-kids work out. Congratulations!
Oh, that is only in the talking stages, so far. But! Very hopeful, here.
I was on a church board for a couple of years. When my time at the church was nearing an end, he told me I was the most “agressive” board member he had ever had — it was a compliment. All I did was ask questions and tell him what I honestly thought. If that’s “agressive,” then I feel sorry for all the other board members he ever had. Geez!
Speaking of Deacons on Display… was the deacon behind Jack a little too much “on display” hence the need to place a strategic steeple in the pic or what. I know what a stumbling block such public display of Porky’s dunlaps disease can be for women.
I thought he was the deacon on display. Was expecting the un censored version.
OH MY GOSH! I just went back and looked at that!!! Did they really censor him with a phallic symbol???
Sims, they do not know or understand big words like “phallic.” Silly Girl!
hee hee… I remember in one class in college we were looking for subliminal messages in liquor advertisements. I found a penis. Pointed it out. End of assignment.
But, since you have a history of *always* finding phallic symbols…. (ducking)
I don’t think that mark is for censoring purposes but rather an identifying mark that’s put in the lower right hand corner on all their church photos and just happened to end up in a very unfortunate position in this photo.
It seemed that way at first to me too, but then I realized it isn’t equal distances from the side and from the bottom so it doesn’t look like it is just there to mark the picture, but more like it was PLACED where it was placed. (In my opinion anyway)
Big Gary makes me laugh.
I was in one of those churches where the pastor flat out said from time to time, “We will not have a board of demons in this church.”
It was a good thing. He was enough all on his own.
“Deacons On Display” sounds like the tile of an X-rated movie….
George, it’s TITLE !
If I made X-rated movies, I would be sure to make that one.
And while I am fairly certain I could not bring myself to actually watch it, I would want someone to tell me if the deacons were IFB.
Or for that matter a polite way of telling someone his fly is open: ‘Your deacon is on display’
OH! HAHAHAHA!!! THAT was AWESOME!!!
I just know I will think of this next time someone is unzipped….
There are so many dirty and inappropriately funny things I want to say… and am just far too ladylike to say them.
Have you ever seen “Pinky and the Brain”? The theme song fits us, except make it Seen Enough And Sims. But that makes ME the insane one…. Which, come to think of it, is okay, because then YOU have to take over the world… They had their genes spliced. WE had our time at HAC. The correlation is there, Sims, just reach for it!
Yeah, I guess there still is some fundy left in us, after all…
Wow. I have NEVER been called the “not insane” one. HAHAA I am reaching… I think I got it. And we WILL take over the world. Just keep doing my bidding. (Do you think we can blame all this crazy on HAC? Do you think we could sue for damages?)
If we sue, we may have to meet with them. Gross.
Pinky, are you pondering what i’m pondering?
I think so Brain, but where are we going to find hot pants in our size?
-Pinky & Brain
I’m kind of at a loss to understand where he finds support for decons being anything other than servants for practical and logistical matters anyway. My experience has been that decons are simply elevated to a pseudo-authority to make the pastor’s dictatorship a little less obvious.
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