Telling Tales Of The Glory Days

I recently found a Facebook group dedicated to people sharing tales of their memories and exploits at my Fundy U. After spending a few hours reading of hands held, kisses stolen, and beer hidden (yes, hours. people love to tell their stories) I came to the conclusion that apparently my Fundy U is Sodom and Gomorrah in khaki pants. Who knew?

Now far be it from me to stop anybody from reminiscing over their youthful shenanigans. I broke my share of rules along the way and have fun laughing with my friends about it now. But the reason I’m laughing is mostly aimed at how ridiculous the environment was that made me care about doing those things at all. And more to the point, I think that if a decade later you’re still trying to establish your cred as a Fundy U Rebel then you’re missing the big picture: you’re still living with the rules firmly lodged inside your head.

At some point we all realize that people outside of these kinds of institutions don’t care how much you got away with. It mostly just looks silly that you were having to “get away with it” in the first place.

“I KISSED A GIRL!!! IN CHURCH!!!”

Lame. Lamer than lame.

Another fact of which I was mostly unaware (you hear rumors about a lot of things) is that there was also a thriving gay community at my Fundy U who evidently bedded 9/10 (give or take a decimal point) of the male population. I’m actually little offended at learning that. What am I, chopped liver? Four years and nobody ever made a pass at me. Harrumph.

But of all the things that I’ve taken away from the train wreck that is the public and full disclosure of every last sin and transgression, there is none great than the realization that if even 10% of of the tales being told are based in reality then why exactly was I being harassed for having a few CD’s that “didn’t pass” ?

“Excuse me, Mr. Floorleader, there’s a Roman orgy two floors up. Why don’t you go deal with that and leave me alone. Thanks.”

There is one other possible motivation for posting these sorts of true confessions and that is to show the fundy U administration and deans exactly how much they didn’t manage to stop. But in order to get a thrill from that, you have to still be emotionally invested in caring about what the administration and the deans are thinking. And really, who’s got that kind of time?

Personally, I’m at a point that if my Fundy U toppled into the much-farther-away-than-advertised ocean tomorrow I would pretty much greet it with a grunt of surprise and an inquiry into what was for lunch. That part of my life has been over for almost a decade. And perversely, complete disregard is the sweetest revenge of all — for fundamentalism can stand anything but being made irrelevant.

So by all means. Post your memories, I’ll post mine and we’ll all get a chuckle. But if anyone thinks that their brags of fundyland wine, women, and song are impressive in general then they need to get a little perspective. The most outrageous and perverse Fundy U student…is still a student at Fundy U.

125 thoughts on “Telling Tales Of The Glory Days”

      1. I found out later that I had “the look” of true believer so the “rebels” avoided me on principle.

        It’s probably just as well in retrospect.

        1. No doubt I did, too, and my name likely helped with that. But it probably was less stressful not to know about all the fun timez going on.

        1. Well. I believe that she is an excellent writer. Some people believe Scarface and the Godfather movies are classics and interesting. It’s a matter of perspective and interests.

        2. We have a lot of Ayn Rand fans here. I think it’s time to give The Fountainhead a reread. Perhaps I’ll appreciate/understand it better now that I’m older than 19.

        3. Don’t knock being 19. I thoroughly enjoyed those when I was 19. Which may have been extremely recently……

  1. That part of my life has been over for almost a decade. And perversely, complete disregard is the sweetest revenge of all — for fundamentalism can stand anything but being made irrelevant.

    Well put.

  2. After hearing what I have heard during all my years in IFB I am positive that neither of my boys will ever set foot in that place (BJU).

      1. The specific group I was reading is about PCC but really I’m talking about every Fundy U. The tales that comes out of each place are about the same type.

  3. “I KISSED A GIRL!!! IN CHURCH!!!”

    I’m hearing a fundy version of Katy Perry’s “I Kissed a Girl” now..

    1. That’s nothing. Just think of all the fundy men that are kissin’ A every Sunday morn’, Sunday eve’, Wednesday night, Calling night, Saturday morn’, and at every deacon’s meeting.

  4. “The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it’s indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it’s indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it’s indifference.” –Elie Wiesel

        1. “The world’s third biggest problem is ignorance, and the world’s second biggest problem is apathy.”

          “So what’s the world’s biggest problem?”

          “I don’t know, and I don’t care.”

    1. Yes, Senda. Oh yeah. And as long as Fundamentalism can make you behave the way those former students are doing, they know that they still have a hold on those people.

  5. @Darrell: I enjoy this site as much as any ex-fundy. And maybe I’m missing your point (as others often say I do), but doesn’t the fact that you host this site and weekly post articles mocking your old life show that indeed you are still “…emotionally invested in caring about what the administration and deans are thinking…” It’s just you spend a lot of time telling everyone that part of your life is over.

    1. Poking fun at the quirkiness of the culture you grew up in is a little different than bragging endlessly over a decade later how you crossed the line (or got really, really close) at your FundyU that had ridiculously strict rules anyway.

      If Darrell were spending most of his blogposts writing about how he just did something his hypothetical old fundy pastor would think is a sin (omg yougaiz i just drank a wine cooler/listened to RelientK/swam in a public pool/ate with my unsaved coworker and didn’t give her a tract!!1!), I might say that was similar. That would be very invested in caring about what the leaders of the movement think, and sort of obsessing over it.

      1. Poking fun at the quirkiness of the culture you grew up in is a little different than bragging endlessly over a decade later how you crossed the line (or got really, really close) at your FundyU that had ridiculously strict rules anyway.

        And what Naomi said.

    2. I suppose the difference is one between the specific and the general. I honestly no longer care what the specific deans and administration of my alma mater think of me or anybody else. When I say that PCC specifically barely even registers on my personal radar that’s the truth.

      But the larger philosophy and practice of fundamentalism in general does still matter to me a little…although even that is diminishing as time goes along. That is to say that when I started writing this blog I was a lot more invested in the topic than I am now. At some point I’ll probably stop caring completely and at that point I’ll go write about something else.

      So yes, I suppose that to the extent that PCC is still under the larger umbrella of fundyland that I do care about it in some small way. But if anyone thinks (as some have claimed) that I write this blog out of some sense of spite for the administration at PCC then they’ve read me completely wrong. There are bigger and more important things at play here.

      1. I am grateful to your work here; I hope you don’t stop… I am not fully out, but I am doing a lot better, and this site has been a help.

        (7 years ago, I left a very controlling, HAC church that had lots of serious sin by “great ones” — the “great ones” being the ones that could claim a lot of “souls won” – but they went into gross sin. It was a HAC-type church: BJU and PCC were liberal, compromising colleges. I was there for a long time, and the scars run deep).

        About 3/4 of the entries are great — but there are some that merely seem to mocking anything “fundy”… as I said, I have a long way to go, or a long time of healing.

    3. I rather thought that Darrell’s point was that it is silly to gloat about what one “got away with” after the rules no longer apply. Darrell makes it his business to point out the inconsistencies and hypocrisies of some branches of Fundamentalism, but I’ve not seen him actively encourage anyone to stay within the Fundamental structure while also rebelling against it.

      Leave. Get out. Reevaluate.

      The cost gets greater the longer you stay in it.

      And, having said that, I recognize that it took me too long to figure that out for myself. I had excuses I thought were pretty good at the time. What I didn’t like was how staying in a system I could not agree with made me a worse person. I learned all the wrong lessons–and it was an unforced error on my part.

      1. Here’s my mentality. There has to be a reformation from within. It’s not about reforming “fundamentalism” per se, as it is about the church. Even though much of fundamentalism rarely speaks of the church outside of fundamentalism. Look at the reformation of the Southern Baptist Convention. Leaders and pastors began to move in to see the SBC change. Men like Mark Dever and Al Mohler are a great example. They saw what was valuable…the people. This is what I need to see. Also, look where the transformation started happening. When leaders arose in their educational institutions. This would be a good place to start quietly. I don’t have a problem with people moving away from “fundamentalism” and even leaving it, but some people need to stay and by God’s grace rescue what we can. However, there will be a price to pay, absolutely.

        1. To claim that the seminaries were key to taking over the SBC is a distortion of the fact. It is true that the Kentucky and North Carolina conventions were eventually taken over by conservative students flooding out of Southern and Southeastern, at the national level there was no such effect. It is true that many of the leaders knew each other from New Orleans seminary, and sometimes Southwestern, but the conservative takeover was not led by theologians.

          The architect of the takeover was Paul Pressler, a layman who was a judge in Texas. Pressler describes the takeover as “grassroots”: http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=17956. The seminaries at the time, with the exception of New Orleans and Southwestern were led by moderates who were hostile to “fundamentalism.” The trustee boards of the seminaries were stacked with conservatives, who then appointed conservative presidents and faculty.

          The presidents of the SBC during this time were not particularly intellectual. Only one, Patterson, was an academic, and he is not seen as a towering intellect. From 1975 to 2000, the conservative presidents of the SBC are as follows:

          W.A. Criswell (pastor)
          Adrian Rogers (pastor)
          Bailey Smith (evangelist)
          Jim Draper (pastor, trustee of SWBTS)
          Charles Stanley (pastor)
          Jerry Vines (pastor)
          Morris Chapman (pastor, denominational employee)
          Ed Young (pastor)
          Jim Henry (pastor)
          Tom Elliff (missionary)
          Paige Patterson (seminary president)

          Trustee boards in the SBC are usually comprised of laymen, although this has changed a little. The trustees are recommended by the Committee on Trustees, which is appointed by the President. The President is elected by the Convention during its annual meeting, at which they also vote on the recommendations for trustee. The hallmark of the Conservative Resurgence in the SBC was enormous attendance numbers at the Annual Meeting. In Dallas they had 50,000. The large, powerful churches that had controlled the SBC hierarchy for years were vastly outnumbered by messengers from the thousands of small churches that poured in.

          The power in the SBC has historically come from the bottom up. The power brokers in the SBC operate by charisma and personal ties, not by intellectual rigor. This is changing somewhat under the Mohler “Great Commission Resurgence” plan, but even that had to be brought in by the immensely popular Johnny Hunt. Such democratic institutions do NOT exist in IFB by the very nature and definition of the movement.

          Now assuming that all the above facts weren’t real and the exact opposite were true, that the seminaries brought about the reform of the SBC. Are we to believe that there are more than five or six seminary professors in all of IFB that are serious academics? Bauder, Doran, Decker… that’s what I can name off-hand.

        2. @Elijah Craig Where were these men trained? Many of them at their own SBC seminaries. After becoming pastors and then seeing the disarray in their ranks and a departure from what most of them were taught at those very seminaries, then as pastors said enough is enough. So in a sense their training did affect them, but you are correct it came from the bottom up. One of the last things you said

          “Are we to believe that there are more than five or six seminary professors in all of IFB that are serious academics? Bauder, Doran, Decker…”

          This is where a big part of the problem lies. We can’t find enough serious teachers who aren’t pereptrating just the same ‘ol stuff. This is a big part of the insanity that is fundamentalism. Most likely people will have to go outside to be trained and find a way back in.

    4. Having my own Fundanon blog, I can tell you, we need to rant and rant until it is all out.

      It is part of the process.

      One day, hopefully soon, we will simply lose interest. Move on. Quietly.

      Most of the people I consider true saints are people who quietly live their lives with little or no judgement and a whole lot of patience and understanding.

        1. Your comment here tempts me to develop a series of fundamentalist-approved constellations: instead of the Drinking Gourd (a/k/a Big Dipper, Plough, Ursa Major, etc.) we have the White Piano.

          Jesus would be represented by Orion, forever locked in battle with the Beast (Taurus–which, appropriately, has a big glaring red eye and long horns).

          As one preacher about 100 years ago suggested, replace the 12 Zodiac constellations (first named by those pagan Babylonians) with the 12 Disciples (include the Apostle Paul–formerly Ophiuchus–if you want to recognize the sidereal zodiac). But that breaks down with using Orion as Christ, unless you make Taurus into Judas Iscariot. :wink:

          Other ideas:
          Hercules = the Mighty Man is now the Man of God, forever at his celestial pulpit with his Bible upraised to smite the sinners

          Bootes = formerly the herdsman, now the Missionary (appropriately enough, Arcturus, the brightest star in this constellation, probably originated outside the Milky Way)

          Draco = nothing as sinister as dragons in this night sky. Let’s try a nice, long Buffet Table. :mrgreen:

          Lyra = the Praise Guitar

          Auriga = updated from the Chariot Driver to the Guy In The Van with the Tracts

          Any other ideas?

  6. I always hated being called a rebel. I still do. I was not in anyway rebellious, and attempts to paint me into that corner always made me more strident both that I was doing just fine, and PCC was wrong. I still hate being called a rebel. I’m the most coachable/manageable person in the world, provided you aren’t insane… :)

    1. I felt the same way! I was a “goody-good” in high school. I was even a little legalistic. Thought that if I was “good” on the outside it would make my relationship with God easier and better. It didn’t. But it pissed me off that I was labeled “trouble” by the admin. at PCC :evil:

      1. No joke. I’m not sure “hated” in sentence “hated being called a rebel” was strong enough. Like that is just abhorrent to cling to your insanity so intensely that you will call anyone pushing back a rebel.

  7. Isn’t it frustrating that we were launched into an environment where these idiotic rules and regulations mattered? For many of us, our biggest piece of freedom was the choice of WHICH fundy college we would attend and which set of psycho rules we would follow.

    Though I was considered a super rebel, the admin. was very careful about what demerits I got for what reasons. (My dad influenced hundreds of kids to attend this college and helped to bring in lots of $.) That’s even more sickening. I couldn’t get expelled if I wanted to!

    There’s a freedom for me in expressing – especially to those who get it – my experiences in the ifb and my continuing journey away from it. As much as we would like to pretend all of this doesn’t matter, it does. It is woven in to who I am. The great thing is, we’ve made sure it’s not a part of who our children are! They love God because it’s in their hearts not because some ranting preacher or rule book tells them to. Now there’s a novel idea.

  8. I reached a point in my adolescence where I cared little for what they in leadership said or thought of me, it made the remaining years of my sojourn in the fundy wilderness quite less than pleasant.

    I find the whole anti-fundy culture very suspect in its psychological motivations, and its why I enjoy SFL, and not all the facebook groups, anti-BJU orgies, and get frustrated with all the “every IFB is…” and that kind of mindless groupthink – its just fundies who have may have left fundy institutions but have been unable to cure themselves of the leprosy of fundamentalism. Those whose entire mission is to bring the whole stinking carcass to its knees really just need to admit that 1) it aint gonna happen, never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups 2) there is a whole world out there that is not tainted by the scourge of fundys – get out in it and leave the past behind.

    Great Post Darrell!

  9. Great post Darrell.
    FundyUs train Fundyland’s future leaders to break the rules. Their consciences are seared at a young age. No matter how you look at this, everyone directly or indirectly infected by a FundyU loses.

    1. This is so true, JimE. Sad but true. I really think it explains how men with such good intentions of serving in the ministry end up being so wicked and perverted. The sense of power, sense of entitlement, their modeling the character traits and attitudes they see in the administration, chapel pulpits and in their Bible classes all add up to people who have lost their love for God and who end up majoring on the minor things.

  10. Darrell I can’t wait until I’m at the point you are. My only exposure to fundyland was thru my Fundy U and those 4.5 years scarred me. I’ve been out for almost 5 years now and I’m now light years away from where I was, thanks in large part to this blog. I wanted to rush the healing, I don’t want to think they have any emotional power over me, but I’m not yet where I want to be. It’s actually similar to emotionally dealing with my childhood abusers.
    I don’t want to be 40 years old and still “bitter.” But I had to learn with this and with my childhood abuse, that it takes time and it can’t be rushed, much as I wish it could be. One thing that FB page has shown me is that I AM getting better, which I didn’t realize I was. Things that used to make me really angry now make me laugh at the ridiculousness. And that, to me, is progress. :grin:

    1. That’s good stuff.

      And I hope that nobody takes away from what I’ve written that everybody has to be at the Acceptance stage of the process all at once.

      We’ve got to run through Anger and Grief and (more Anger and more Grief..then probably some more Anger)before we can come out the other side. The key is not to park there but to see it as a process.

      There’s also a great opportunity to show compassion on those who are a step or two behind where we are in dealing with it all. That’s one of the things I love about the community here at SFL. Whatever you’re going through, you’re not alone here.

  11. You know, it’s kind of ironic about all the rules. Personally, I think that the administration focuses so much on the little stuff that the HUGE infractions occurring right under their noses go completely unnoticed. It could also be that they just are so highly “trained” to spot the CCM cd that somebody has, or the errant hemline, but noticing the subtleties of two guys flirting and hooking up goes way over their heads.

    It’s frustrating, because really, that kind of legalistic thinking ends up punishing those that aren’t really rebelling. It may even end up pushing people into going further. Why bother being good if you keep getting “busted” for some stupid infraction? Yeah, you’re a “troublemaker” because you can’t keep your dorm room clean. Meanwhile, there is a manwhore living two doors down that has a clean slate.

      1. Just to play Devil’s Advocate here, does any one know where this phrase, “Cleanliness is next to godliness” is from? :twisted:

    1. >You know, it’s kind of ironic about all the rules. Personally, I think that the administration focuses so much on the little stuff that the HUGE infractions occurring right under their noses go completely unnoticed.

      It reminds me of the time in fundy high school when we got in trouble and were the subject of a sermon for drinking IBC, because it had the “appearance of evil”, while they missed the vodka in our water bottles!

  12. It isn’t/wasn’t just students who broke rules. Faculty/administrators with secret trysts (hetero and homo) also populate Fundy U campuses. Sometimes the same individuals who would berate students and/or kick them out for accumulating too many “tallies”.

  13. The ironic thing about these tales of what people got away with at the U is that very few of these things would be against the rules at the great majority of universities, whether religious or secular.

    Reading unapproved books or listening to unapproved music? Every school I’ve been to encouraged students to read and listen to as much as possible, and no literature or music was banned.

    Kissing another student? Knock yourself out! Isn’t that what college memories are made of?

    Wearing unapproved clothing? No non-Fundy college I know of, except for military schools, tells its students what to wear. It would probably be an issue if somebody were walking around campus completely naked (the way that guy in Berkeley did), but I’ve never seen that happen anywhere I’ve been.

    1. Which guy in Berkeley? Between the naked protests and finals-time library streakers, there are a lot of naked people around Berkeley.

    2. exactly what I have been thinking reading that PCC fb page. there’s a whole thread about what did you get kicked out for. NONE of it was truly bad in the real world. Just how embarassing is it to tell a potiential boss that you got kicked out of college for… listening to a Bon Jovi CD?? Uh, ok.

      1. LOL, it could be worse. One of my high school teachers graduated from PCC, and was kicked out for listening to Air Supply…

        1. Uh, oops…I mean he obviously did NOT graduate, if he was kicked out. Our school hired him anyway because his sister and brother in law worked there and were well liked.

        2. “It could be worse.”

          You can say that again!
          It would be incredibly humiliating to have to admit that I’d been listenig to Air Supply, whether or not I got expelled for it.

        3. If you get kicked out for physical contact, i.e. tapping someone of the opposite sex on the shoulder or play footsie under the table, it goes on your record as sexual misconduct. THAT also has to be embarassing to explain to a future employer.
          “No seriously, that’s all that happened, I promise…”

          Uh, ok.

  14. I second the writer’s opinion on this. I’ve been gone from Fundy’s for 4.5 years, and I don’t like to be reminded of the silly stuff that the rebels brag about.

  15. How many of these students broke “the rules” because they knew they could get away with it?
    There were some students at my fundie school who knew they could away with murder because they were either poplar, had talents the school needed, or were well connected. Everyone knew there were two sets of rules and punishments. And most students either well connected or not, had little respect for the school administration.

    1. Very true, Mark. At my former fundy school, a certain evangelist’s grandson (who founded the college) was one of the most regular “rule benders” on campus. Though he was often in trouble (and leading others in it), he managed not only to remain a student and member of the “elite” ensemble group, but also to become a sports league president and appear in many of the college’s promotional videos and printed material!

      I suppose this was due to his “character” and not his well-publicized role as the grandson of the college founder…..hmmm…… :D

  16. My experience with fundamentalism is that the accuser is uaually the guilty party of what they are trying to accuse you of. Seems to reign true at fundamentalist organizations. somehow it has worked out for them that this is the best way to cover up their sins and still retain all their power…but isn’t that what fundamentalism is all about?!

  17. Two things I’ve taken away after also spending hours on the FB page:
    How the heck did they get away with that stuff?
    and
    The bigger they are the harder they fall at PCC. You are never too high up to have job security, disagree or do something wrong, that student,staff person, VP or pastor is told to move out in the middle of the night and the next day it was like they were never there.

    Oh and a bonus thought, really how can they rememember their ID numbers, fav Vespers and what they got demerits for?? That was 20 years ago for me, I’ve got limited brain space to remember non essential facts like that.

    1. Shit, you just made me remember my ID. I have no idea why it’s still in my head. Out, out! :wink: I do remember most of the demerits I got, because the few times I got them was some unjust shit.

      1. No kidding. Me wife wouldn’t date some guy, so he told the school something untrue about her. She was nearly expelled. Climate of hate, fear, suspicion. Really pathetic and sad.

    2. I hated Vespers. I was a town student and skipped Vespers an entire semester…didn’t get any Demerits so it must have been Ok. :razz:

  18. Some interesting points have been made. I went to the same Fundy U and was nearly expelled my freshman year. Thankfully, I was not and completed my degree. As for the rules. Were some of them retarded? Yes, absolutely. Were some unscriptural? Yes. But institutions have to have standards to function (just like all businesses–and that’s what most fundy u’s are) I just started a job at one of the country’s top employers and you’d be amazed at the amount of rules there are. I view most Fundy U rules as prep for the real world. If I can deal with rules and regulations and stuff there, you can deal with it anywhere. While normal schools may not require you to have a dress code. Nearly every company I have been employed with does. Why not just accept the institutional standards?

    The problem comes when people equate accepting an institutional standard with spirituality.

    1. The problem is not the rules, as agonizing, ridiculous, and frustrating as they could be … the problem is that keeping the rules (and often, the rules/standards themselves) were equated with genuine spirituality, and that led to a stifling, abusive, toxic environment in my experience.

    2. “Why not just accept the institutional standards?”

      1)There is a world of difference between the rules of a workplace and the rules of the IFB world. The rules of Fundy H.S. and U. are enormously nonsensical, hypocritical, and harmful; the rules of the work world generally have good reason, though some may not have the best reasons.
      2) You are getting paid at work, and generally speaking (and depending on the work), your input is at least noticed by those with whom you are directly in contact, who are usually those who have the most influence over what you do.
      3) Your character is not brought into question whenever you fail to meet a particular work standard.

  19. Just goes to show – whereever there is law, sin increases. For the strength of sin is the law. If they didn’t have the hundreds of rules, people wouldn’t be enticed to break them, and I would imagine that drinking, secret kissing (shocking!) or whatever else went on would actually decrease. It’s amazing what showing grace to people can do.

  20. Darrell, keep up the blog. If you keep one person from attending BJU or PCC or if you talk one person into leaving a fundy church then your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

  21. I have often said that anyone can get away with almost anything at FU if they just remember one simple rule.

    Shut up.

    Don’t brag about your exploits, don’t EVER break rules in big groups, and don’t be an outward rebel. Keep your group of friends very small and make sure they’re cool with anything. People there draw lines in weird places so slowly test the waters with your core group until you’re sure they’re ok.

    Only the careless get kicked out.

    1. I never tried to keep the rules. I also never tried to break them. I just did my thing. I never bragged because I wasn’t trying to prove anything, I was just me. And I never got in trouble.

  22. This is what happens when preachers preach nothing but the law; it produces people who are obsessed with the law (either keeping it to the letter and becoming proud and self righteous about it, or breaking the law and flaunting it 5 years later on Facebook).

    God have mercy on both of these two groups. Neither group will find salvation apart from the gospel (which, for some reason, not many fundamentalists want to preach).

  23. What often happens (in my opinion) is that you have a kid reared in a very strict fundy household, who gets sent to Fundy U (often they don’t have much of a choice w/o being shunned by their parents). In the meantime, like any normal 18 year old they are longing for a bit of freedom. So, they don’t find that at Fundy U, they start to think for themselves, so breaking rules at Fundy U becomes the most “rebellious” thing they can do. The biggest problem in all this is that they’ve never experienced the true grace of God in their lives because they were brought up in a rules-based culture. There is often a lot of guilt behind all the bragging.

    For example, I felt so guilty for years about how “far” DH and I went sexually before marriage (since we all know, growing up in Fundy-land, even kissing before marriage is one of the worst sins ever). Then, I secretly admitted my guilt to another young married friend. . .Surprise, surprise, her and her husband (who was in Fundy U Seminary at the time) did way more than DH and I had done. But, you live for years that way, either wallowing in guilt that you committed the worst sins ever or bragging to cover up for guilt. But lots of it is rooted in guilt just the same, because Fundies don’t teach God’s grace properly.

    1. RJW,

      That is basically what I found to be true as well. Someone has wisely said that you should give people as much freedom as they want to sin, and then you will know who the sheep and the goats are. PCC and others make kids into Pharisees.

      By the way, I believe that the time of the whole getting marriage process is way overextended when your Christian college can decide where you can get marriage counseling or when you can go off campus to get your marriage license. (no joke) Or if your fiance’s spiritual PCC supervisor tells your spouse that she really is not seeking God’s will in regards to marrying you. It’s crazy and totally bogus thinking. :shock:

  24. “9/10 (give or take a decimal point) of the male population”? “Roman orgy two floors up”? I’m here at a Fundy U and I miss these things? What am I doing wrong? lol

    1. Your quest, should you choose to accept it Pastor Phelps is that you and your IFB team must find the “Perilous Hallway of Peril.” Should you be caught your local church will disavow any knowledge of you or that you ever existed. Good Luck. This message will self-destruct in 10 seconds. :shock:

  25. Absolutely, Darrell. It’s the attitude of “I’m so rebellious to have gotten away with this” that shows the rules are still really ingrained on their minds, to be contrasted with “can you believe this was even a ‘rule’ that no one in the real world ever would think to restrict someone on?” I think it’s an important step in maturing (cross-reference earlier post where [in the comments at least] we (I was lurking) were talking about maturing later – going through things in our late 20s (early 30s?) that our non-fundy oppressed friends dealt with in their teens) and definitely in healing.

    Or even the “I’m so glad to be out of there” while continuing the atmosphere of spiritual oppression and legalism in their personal lives and families.

  26. Oh, my, I just have to comment. I went to not one, not two, but three fundamentalist colleges (what can I say?).

    The first was a trip. Of the three girls across the hall, two had loud, bed-shaking sex every night, and when their roommate finally complained about them, SHE was removed. The lesbians were then left to get on with their bad selves in private. :wink:

    Later, my fiance and I were discovered to be having sex. Note: I was 17 and he was 24. I confessed, being the good girl that I was. He denied it. Guess who was kicked out? Yep, the harlot who admitted she had sex. Never mind that I was underage. Obviously, we had consensual sex, and that’s not an issue, but he remained in school and in good standing, because he lied through his teeth. They had “no evidence” of his wrongdoing. Geez! Really? :evil:

    My parents dutifully sent me off to the next unsuspecting school. I was a little more worldy, a little bruised, having my heart broken by that jackanapes. But, whatever. I was ready to get on with MY bad self this time. Until right after the semester started, I got massively sick. I mean, in the hospital sick. I had a fever and could not walk. Yep, that turd-wad butt-muncher freakazoid had given me an std, but it sat silently in my system until my immune system was weakened by the study regimen of school. I was hospitalized for a week, on IV drugs, the whole shebang. AND I had to get flipping counseling, since I was a military kid. They didn’t want me infecting their precious airmen (never mind that I wasn’t actually sexually active).

    It gets better. When I got BACK to school from the hospital, they needed to know what was up. This was 20 years ago, and there was no such thing as a right to privacy, or my parents were too stupid to consider my right to privacy. I don’t know which it was. Either way, they told the school what had happened, and even though my “social disease” had been cleared up with some serious antibiotics, the school did not want me putting their precious girls at risk.

    Yep, there it was again. I had that darned scarlet letter plastered all over me.

    I was ready to quit, but they weren’t. They trotted me off once again, but this time I was old enough to say screw it. I held out for a little while, then I dropped out of my own accord. At least this time I wasn’t kicked out.

    So now I can say I was kicked out of not one but TWO colleges. Seriously, is that awesome or what?

    But if you really want to know the truth, I wasn’t a bad kid. I’d have done what I needed to do to graduate. I wasn’t trying to rebel or break any rules. I just got caught in the tide and sucked under.

    Today, I’m still a Baptist, but I’m nothing like my parents. I’m an anarchist, a social liberal, and I refuse to conform to other people’s opinions of what I ought to be. :grin:

  27. Darrell, with all due respect… um… you wouldn’t have this entire BLOG if you were truly over Christian Fundamentalism. And it’s okay. So don’t get down on the FB posters. They’re just trying to heal… like you are. And it’s okay.

    1. I didn’t say I was over fundamentalism, I said I didn’t care about what the admin of a particular college thought and “that part of my life” (i.e. my college career) is over.

      If you’ll look at my subsequent comments above you’ll see me describe this in some further detail.

  28. “What am I, chopped liver?” HA HA HA HA HA HA!
    Don’t feel too bad- for what it’s worth to you, one of my roommates thought you were really hot.

    My worst secret transgression was sneaking into my dorm without my ID, as far as I remember. All my criminal activity was very obvious.

  29. Darrell I can’t believe you were overlooked, what with your impeccable sense of style and penchant for showtunes! :wink: Really I’m not sure [fundy U] had a thriving gay community, I mean, I only knew two admitted gay guys (one of whom ironically played the “Fairy King” in A Midsummer Night’s Dream), and two more I suspected. And I was a art major.

  30. I have one objection to this post, the use of the term “lame” as an uncool college kid myself I am shocked outraged and offended that you would compare me to the worst of your university days. How dare you, sir!/ kidding, seriously kidding, please don’t over react.

  31. So, a story from my Christian but non-fundy U: the policy is no drinking, period, as a student (even over break). Certainly, no drinks on campus. One Friday evening, I found a 6-pack of Bud Light bottles (caps on, but empty) beside our chapel. Being the environmentally conscious person, I decide to recycle them. Thinking we had glass recycling in our girls’ dorm laundry room, I carried the 6 pack through the filled with students and RAs lounge – and not one person said a word. Realizing that we didn’t have recycling in the laundry room, I took the 6 pack back through the Friday-night-filled-with-people lounge. Again, no comments. After looking around outside and not finding a recycling bin, I decided the best way to get rid of these would just be in the general trash in the dorm. So, I carried them through the packed lounge again. This time, one of the RAs stopped me: “Whoah, looks like you’re having a party tonight.” I replied, “Yeah, it’s for my birthday.” I smiled at him, and went into the girl’s dorm and threw away the empties. The RA saw me the next day in class – no comment. There was never even a general email about “Whoever threw the 6-pack in the ladies bathroom trash, confess now and we’ll be lenient.” I think you can get away with quite a bit if you go about it the right way.

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