Comments on: Pastoral Authority

By: Mandy

Mandy — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 06:12:39 +0000

Christian colleges, institutes, and other pastor schools need to spend far less time talking about “pastoral authority” and a lot more time reminding their preacher boys that they are no more important then anyone else in the church they happen to preach at. I realize that dealing with administrative things in the church requires someone (it can be one or more than one) to have a final say, and that many churches choose to have one person as the administrative head.

But of course, fundy pastor training tends to encourage preacher boys to let that go to their heads. “I have the final say in what color scheme the sanctuary is, therefore I have the right to decide what the people in my church do, think, and wear at all times.” News flash to fundy pastors: When the Bible refers to us as “sheep”, it’s talking about you to. You are not some kind of higher being.

By: Steve Condrey

Steve Condrey — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 21:26:32 +0000

I thought it was all of the Agents in the Matrix…

By: persifler

persifler — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:04:53 +0000

oh BTW the Men In Black group pic is priceless. They get in the pulpits, whip out their mind altering light pen and voila’ instant willing obedience to whatever they suggest…

By: persifler

persifler — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:54:46 +0000

Seems January was the month that we all were thinking the IFB=RC (Roman Cathollicism) Here is a link to my blog as I come out of the IFB and the issues I am dealing with. I thought it was interesting that we come to the same conclusions.
http://persifler.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/de-constructing-church/

By: JimE

JimE — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:16:05 +0000

Anyone paid a salary in my church is referred to as “staff”, even the senior pastor/elder.
Some pastors act out their “pastoral authority” based on “obedience to God”. Few have actual training in this area. Those that do cannot possibly keep up with the complexity, variation, and changes (e.g. political, cultural, technical) that impact the lives of “the flock”. As those that exercise their “pastoral authority” start and continue to make serious mistakes, they are faced with a dilemma. They must decide if the Bible is wrong (No), or is my interpretation wrong (No), or am I not giving the “counsel of God” (No), or is the counseled warped and being punished by God (Yes).

This behavior also leads to “cookie cutter” Christians. Imagine if God dealt with everyone identically and told everyone the same thing. Adam, Noah, Moses, Joseph, Abraham, David, Samuel, John, Peter, Paul would all be building arks, naming creatures, hitting rocks, saving grain, etc. Today fundies are KJV, CCM is sin, TV is sin, Movies are sin, Pants on women sin, etc. Cookie cutter Christians not patterned by Christ, but instead, patterned by the pastor.

By: Alan

Alan — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 03:31:18 +0000

@J Leslie

Good point. There is no law concerning paying a pastor. In fact, the one instance the word pastor is used in the New Testament does not give any definition to what a pastor is. So, we are unclear of what the pastor means when it is mentioned in Ephesians. As far as I know, there is never a mention of the terms “my pastor, your pastor or the pastor” in the New Testament. Its kind of like when a dinosaur skeleton is discovered and scientist construing what color his skin was, what type of food he hate, his mating habits… the list goes on. Needless to say, many assumptions are made on a small bit of evidence. Even so, the ministries mentioned in the New Testament are reconstructed according to our 21st understanding, and we have built a whole church culture based on assumptions.

John the Baptist is a good example of a “pastor.” We know that Peter and Andrew were his disciples before Christ came on the scene. When Christ did come on the scene, John set them loose to follow Christ. A true “pastor” will set people free when they enter the school of Christ. It makes me question, in our day, how the same pastor can have the same church members for 40 years and they never come to maturity in Christ. If I were entering the school of Karate tomorrow, and I never became a black belt in 40 years, would it not strange if the Karate teacher still wanted to make a living from my failure to learn? Why is it that some many pastors like depended on, so as to make a living off of their subjects?

By: Richard Sullivan

Richard Sullivan — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:03:58 +0000

I believe Alan’s comments are right on target. I was always told the pastor reaped and lived of the gospel (to my utter shame, I practiced what was preached). Only within recent years, I thoroughly examined what Paul said and did instead of taking a blind statement from some self-proclaimed Protestant pope. I understand that Paul gave all of himself (finances included) to the assembly of believers he was trying to help. He wasn’t out to “feather his nest”. How many leaders in the church today would do what they do for nothing? No salary, benefits, pats on the back from their cronies, etc. I believe in the biblical leadership of having elders but not what is happening today and has been happening for some time now.

By: J Leslie

J Leslie — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:45:51 +0000

As to how much or even if the pastor should be paid, I would say that is up to the individual church. I mean did any church in the NT provide for or dare I say it “pay” Paul? Of course, but at the same time I realize it wasn’t a salary but more like a love offering. Plainly put, there isn’t a law for or against paying a pastor. How a church decides is, I believe up to that church. Maybe I am wrong, I don’t know.

As much as some of you may wish to avoid a church that pays their pastor, I would be too scared to visit the church that refuses to pay their pastor.

By: Alan

Alan — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:00:50 +0000

The New Testament elder does not get a salary. He’s like a farmer. He plants the seed and hopes for a crop. If the crop yields any fruit, he gets to eat from it. In the same sense, if a New Testament elder sees people get saved and grow under his ministry, he should (like the farmer) eat from the fruit of his labors. That is biblical. That is why the Bible says that the elders who rule well (watch over the flock, not lord) are worthy of double honor (a double gift- honorarium). This is sowing in hope. Not having any expectation but what he happens to get from those he blesses. But to give him a lifetime supply of free money, free college for his 5+ kids, cruises to Alaska, a raise every time he has a child etc… That is totally unbiblical.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:40:55 +0000

In my current church, the pastor, youth minister, assistant pastor, organ player, sunday school teachers, and sundry others get a salary. As a result, there is a definite chain of command. “I’d better not do (insert action here) or I’ll get fired.”